John Means 2024

[sportsfan8703]

Gotta think that he’ll agree to be optioned to the minors. It’s his quickest and most stable path back to the majors as a starter. If not, we might have to hide him as the 8th man in the bullpen, or IL him which could delay him another 30+ days, or DFA him and he’ll bounce around the league most likely as a reliever. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gotta think that he’ll agree to be optioned to the minors. It’s his quickest and most stable path back to the majors as a starter. If not, we might have to hide him as the 8th man in the bullpen, or IL him which could delay him another 30+ days, or DFA him and he’ll bounce around the league most likely as a reliever. 

I think it’s possible he would agree to be optioned, but he has 5 years and 7 days so being optioned for more than 3 weeks would cause him to not hit free agency this offseason. Once he’s optioned he can’t contractually force the Orioles to call him up quicker than those 3 weeks. They could make some sort of handshake agreement on it but it would be putting faith in the Orioles to stick to that.

If he’s confident he’s healthy and as ready as he’s going to be, even if the Orioles are not, he’s better off rejecting an option. 

[Frobby]

38 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

I think it’s possible he would agree to be optioned, but he has 5 years and 7 days so being optioned for more than 3 weeks would cause him to not hit free agency this offseason. Once he’s optioned he can’t contractually force the Orioles to call him up quicker than those 3 weeks. They could make some sort of handshake agreement on it but it would be putting faith in the Orioles to stick to that.

If he’s confident he’s healthy and as ready as he’s going to be, even if the Orioles are not, he’s better off rejecting an option. 

Yeah, I’d forgotten about the FA ramifications of this.  

[webbrick2010]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yeah, I’d forgotten about the FA ramifications of this.  

If he wants to go FA path I'm sure the O's would grant him his release

[interloper]

I hate that we can't get any information from minor league rehab stuff. I would love to hear what Means has to say about it, or the coaching staff, or Hyde/Elias. It's tough to have nothing to go on. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

If he wants to go FA path I'm sure the O's would grant him his release

Means is still fairly cheap this year, but has a non-negligible salary and was a very good pitcher before his injuries. Unless the Orioles think he’s totally done or re-injured, they’ll stick him in the bullpen at the end of his 30 day rehab until he shows he can’t get out MLB hitters.

At that point he’ll be optioned and granted his release if he wants it, but either way his free agency is a moot point because he’d be non-tendered this offseason even if he doesn’t get a full year of service. 

The only positive spin on his AAA rehab performance is that his stuff looks fine, at least his fastball. Averaging 92 with his typical high spin rate. If he strings together some better rehab outings in his remaining time he may be ok and just working through the rust. 

[ChuckS]

11 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Means is still fairly cheap this year, but has a non-negligible salary and was a very good pitcher before his injuries. Unless the Orioles think he’s totally done or re-injured, they’ll stick him in the bullpen at the end of his 30 day rehab until he shows he can’t get out MLB hitters.

At that point he’ll be optioned and granted his release if he wants it, but either way his free agency is a moot point because he’d be non-tendered this offseason even if he doesn’t get a full year of service. 

The only positive spin on his AAA rehab performance is that his stuff looks fine, at least his fastball. Averaging 92 with his typical high spin rate. If he strings together some better rehab outings in his remaining time he may be ok and just working through the rust. 

Is he really averaging 92?  I heard he was topping out at 92.  

[Warehouse]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

Is he really averaging 92?  I heard he was topping out at 92.  

Statcast had him averaging 92.0 on his 4S (vs. 90.8, 90.4, and 90.8 for his prior three outings).

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Warehouse said:

Statcast had him averaging 92.0 on his 4S (vs. 90.8, 90.4, and 90.8 for his prior three outings).

Velocity should play up in short stints. 

[interloper]

Who was that poster who was the Means defender and getting on everyone for not factoring Means into the rotation this offseason? I feel bad for that guy. 

[Ohfan67]

17 hours ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

I think it’s possible he would agree to be optioned, but he has 5 years and 7 days so being optioned for more than 3 weeks would cause him to not hit free agency this offseason. Once he’s optioned he can’t contractually force the Orioles to call him up quicker than those 3 weeks. They could make some sort of handshake agreement on it but it would be putting faith in the Orioles to stick to that.

If he’s confident he’s healthy and as ready as he’s going to be, even if the Orioles are not, he’s better off rejecting an option. 

Given his injury history and what’s happening right now, Means may make more money as an Oriole next year than as a free agent. He may have to settle for league minimum as a FA but would do better than that in arbitration. Heck, unless he’s effective at least a little this year then the orioles might release him after the season to avoid paying more than league minimum. I hope Means recovers, very much so, but this scenario is possible imo. 
 

ps. I guess I ignored the part where you said if Means thinks he is healthy. 

Edited April 19 by Ohfan67

[Safelykept]

12 hours ago, interloper said:

Who was that poster who was the Means defender and getting on everyone for not factoring Means into the rotation this offseason? I feel bad for that guy. 

There were several and I was one them. I'm  on record as saying I was one of his biggest Apologists . You should feel good about yourself as you were able to see that Means would be imploding before our very eyes( which was an opinion or a guess, which is what I did) as far as feeling bad for me? Dont I'm plenty good enough to know I wont be able to guess right every time 

[Tony-OH]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Velocity should play up in short stints. 

Well, he didn't know he was going to have a short stint when he was pitching.

[Tony-OH]

Here's John Means statcast info from this last start.

Here was his main problem. He couldn't throw many quality strikes and was pulling almost everything glove side. I'm no pitching expert, and I don't know where he was standing on the rubber, but Ben McDonald talks about this all the time where the pitcher needs to make an adjustment on the pitching rubber when he missing to one side too often.

Here's his movement since 2019

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The one thing to note is Means' stuff has been pretty average to below average since 2021. He's always relied on changing speeds and location vs incredible stuff. He had no location in this last start but everything else like velocity and movement look similar to the last few years. 

So I'm not overly worried about Means. I also don't expect him to be much better than Irvin if and when he comes back, but you never know.

[Sports Guy]

18 hours ago, interloper said:

Who was that poster who was the Means defender and getting on everyone for not factoring Means into the rotation this offseason? I feel bad for that guy. 

WC wanted to give him a contract extension.  Others agreed although I don’t remember who they were.  I think Frobby was open to the discussion??