If Coby Mayo Can Play Average ML 3B Defense

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Right, I think it would be smart to consider/try the position change. It is the timing that makes no sense. If they do it, I think that means we won't see him until September at the earliest unless it goes incredibly well or Mullins is done or injured. 

@Roy Firestone said he was told that Mayo was within days of a call up.  Not sure how solid that is but it begs the question, does Mayo get called up (I know he’s injured) before Holliday and is it to play 3B.

Lots of moving parts and I think the situation is fluid.  A year from now Mayo could be traded, the 3B, the 1B, the RF, or all three.    

[MCO'sFan]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I didn't hear the comment but "considering playing CF" is different than a position change. Could be just trying it out to see if it might be an option. 

Santander is gone next year, Mullins has been sucking since last July, and Hays is a ticking time bomb. Would be good to have some extra depth there.

I am repeating myself and I apologize for that. I understand the underlying logic and actually agree that it would be good to consider/try at some point. Seems to make more sense than Norby to LF for example. He'd be blocked there too. But, the timing doesn't make any sense at all. If they want him focused on offense and returning to Baltimore quickly then there is no way they try the change.

Edited May 20 by MCO'sFan

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

I am repeating myself and I apologize for that. I understand the underlying logic and actually agree that it would be good to consider/try at some point. Seems to make more sense that Norby to LF for example. He'd be blocked there too. But, the timing doesn't make any sense at all. If they want him focused on offense and returning to Baltimore quickly then there is no way they try the change.

Did anyone say the focus is returning to Baltimore quickly? I think the focus is on October... The timeframe could be something like play some games there in June while watching Mullins. If Mullins is still .600 or less, then move to CF full time for July. If it goes well, bring him up as the CF for August-Sept. 

[Rbiggs2525]

2 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I am repeating myself and I apologize for that. I understand the underlying logic and actually agree that it would be good to consider/try at some point. Seems to make more sense that Norby to LF for example. He'd be blocked there too. But, the timing doesn't make any sense at all. If they want him focused on offense and returning to Baltimore quickly then there is no way they try the change.

I do not think they are worried about how long it takes right now. I projected he would be back by All Star break at the earliest anyways. It’s worth a try especially how Mateo is playing. I was always under the belief CF is the easiest OF position. More balls are hit right at you in left and right, which are hardest to judge. Some may disagree.

[MCO'sFan]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

With Mayo out for a bit with a broken rib, this is all on hold anyways! 

Saying that, I'm a proponent of moving Holliday to CF. He has the speed and with Mullins scuffling, he gives them a nice option in 2025 out there or even late 2024 IF, Holliday shows he can play there effectively and Mullins is still scuffling with the bat. 

I would have have play about 60% there and 40% at 2B. 

Do you agree that if they do that, Holliday won't be up anytime soon? Seems almost a little desperate to me. What has changed to do this now, in the middle of the season and after he struggled so much in his brief MLB time? Has Mayo's defense improved that much? Have they soured on Mullins that quickly? 

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I am repeating myself and I apologize for that. I understand the underlying logic and actually agree that it would be good to consider/try at some point. Seems to make more sense than Norby to LF for example. He'd be blocked there too. But, the timing doesn't make any sense at all. If they want him focused on offense and returning to Baltimore quickly then there is no way they try the change.

Right.  Well, playing 1-2 games a week in CF just makes him more versatile but yeah, it would be odd if the plan was to call him up soon to play 2B.   Which makes me think the plan isn’t set in stone one way or the other.   They just want as many options as possible.

[MCO'sFan]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Did anyone say the focus is returning to Baltimore quickly? I think the focus is on October... The timeframe could be something like play some games there in June while watching Mullins. If Mullins is still .600 or less, then move to CF full time for July. If it goes well, bring him up as the CF for August-Sept. 

I was making the assumption that was the plan like I think most folks on the OH were. You could be right and that was my entire point. If they do this, we won't see him for a while.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, MCO'sFan said:

Do you agree that if they do that, Holliday won't be up anytime soon? Seems almost a little desperate to me. What has changed to do this now, in the middle of the season and after he struggled so much in his brief MLB time? Has Mayo's defense improved that much? Have they soured on Mullins that quickly? 

1. Mayo’s defense at 3B has improved.  Not saying it’s even average but maybe.

2. Mullins slumps are scary and even if he rebounds he’s not here long term.

3. Mateo (I know! I know!) is impersonating a ML hitter, with GG caliber defense and game changing speed.

 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

What do you see as Holliday and Mayo's long term positions? 

I don’t know.

Heading into this season, I said I didn’t feel Gunnar’s defense at SS was so good that we should just assume Holliday doesn’t end up there. 
 

Holliday does need to work on his arm strength and my assumption was always that he would. Now, maybe that assumption is wrong, I don’t know but at his age and time in development and the size of Gunnar, I still felt Holliday at SS and Gunnar at third would be the best total defensive lineup long term.  That doesn’t necessarily mean Holliday would be the better SS but that the combo of the 2 would be the best alignment (this also thinking Gunnar would be GG level at third but not SS)

This year, I feel Gunnar has looked similar at SS although OAA likes him a lot more this year than last but stats like UZR and UZR/150 don’t. He is 36th in MLb in DRS and 6th at SS (4th in AL).  I was actually surprised to see his arm is “only” in the 77th percentile.  
 

I can see Gunnar being a high OAA guy because I think his athleticism will simply allow him to make plays most players can’t.

I think it’s fair to say that Gunnar is an above average defensive SS but how far above average is he and is he truly an elite defender at SS?  I don’t think so but maybe he can develop into one?  I feel confident he would be at third.

I have said for a while that all the defensive alignment stuff will be wrapped around where Holliday and Gunnar end up.

For now, it seems obvious Holliday isnt a SS option this year unless an injury occurs. 
 

As to how that could change, I think it depends on Holliday.

I still seriously doubt he ends up in CF. It’s not like he would be the first converted SS to end up out there and that’s arguably a more premium position than SS in todays game because of all the FB pitchers but it would still surprise me to see that be the long term move.

I also think we are overlooking the Westburg factor here. They may believe, even with the arm not being overly strong, that he is the third baseman of the future.  Saying that, I have never doubted that Mayo could stick at third. I believe he can. I just didn’t believe it would happen here and I still don’t.  

I still think he ends primarily at RF and first base.

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I was making the assumption that was the plan like I think most folks on the OH were. You could be right and that was my entire point. If they do this, we won't see him for a while.

Yeah, I'm kinda under the assumption that it's gonna be a while. He looked really bad the first time and the team is performing without him. No reason to rush.

[Sports Guy]

I also think Bradfield factors in here.

We have no idea if he turns into a hitter worthy of an everyday ML spot as of now but the Os clearly drafted him thinking he would be an everyday CFer for them.

He was a college player playing in the best baseball conference and arguably at the best college program.

He may be able to come up here and compete for a GG right now and he may rival Elly for the SB crown.

Now, they could of course trade Bradfield and it opens things up more but I don’t know that I buy them moving Holliday to CF until they know more about Bradfield.

[Tony-OH]

35 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Do you agree that if they do that, Holliday won't be up anytime soon? Seems almost a little desperate to me. What has changed to do this now, in the middle of the season and after he struggled so much in his brief MLB time? Has Mayo's defense improved that much? Have they soured on Mullins that quickly? 

To me it's about the future, but even more than this year. If Holliday can show he can play CF well, it gives the Orioles more options in 2024 and beyond, but also this year in case Mullins is still struggling at the AS break offensively.

I don't see Holliday coming back anytime soon anyways, especially if Mateo keeps playing competently at 2B like he has.

Mayo's injury has made him one injury away from getting recalled unless they really want to give Urias everyday PAs for a bit, which is doubtful.

 

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I also think Bradfield factors in here.

We have no idea if he turns into a hitter worthy of an everyday ML spot as of now but the Os clearly drafted him thinking he would be an everyday CFer for them.

He was a college player playing in the best baseball conference and arguably at the best college program.

He may be able to come up here and compete for a GG right now and he may rival Elly for the SB crown.

Now, they could of course trade Bradfield and it opens things up more but I don’t know that I buy them moving Holliday to CF until they know more about Bradfield.

He would not rival anyone for the SB crown because he has to get on base to do that, and no way is he close to be ready to do that at the major league level. He has a .330 OBP in A+ Ball.

Yes, Bradfield absolutely could come up and play great defense, but if people are upset with Mullins' bat, they'd be out with pitchforks with Bradfield right now. He's got a long way to go.

 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He would not rival anyone for the SB crown because he has to get on base to do that, and no way is he close to be ready to do that at the major league level. He has a .330 OBP in A+ Ball.

Yes, Bradfield absolutely could come up and play great defense, but if people are upset with Mullins' bat, they'd be out with pitchforks with Bradfield right now. He's got a long way to go.

 

Obviously. I’m not saying he can come up right now and compete with the bat. Just saying that I don’t think they make this decision without knowing more about Bradfield’s bat.

If Bradfield ends the year in Bowie and he is hitting well, he enters the CF picture very soon. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, FlaO'sFan said:

What would happen to Bradfield in that situation?

He’d be the 4th OF probably.