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Trevor Rogers 2024

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But the Rogers of 2024 isn’t the guy the Os traded for.

By that I mean, we already know they want to change things about him. They traded for him because they feel he will become something better. We have to wait for that.

Now, that being said, I think people are way overboard here.

First of all, teams who sold were generally getting far younger prospects. Secondly, we traded 2 very flawed players that had some long term role but maybe not much of one.  The longer you hold onto “old prospects”, the less value they have.

I think the only argument that is worth talking about is did Elias sacrifice now for tomorrow?  IE, could he have gotten a rental that helps more now vs the long term?  Could he have gotten another reliever over a starter? (My preference)

 

We don’t know the answer to either of those questions.

What we do know is these 2 were “old”, that these 2 were older than I believe every prospect traded was and that we got some of the better players traded at the deadline overall, especially Eflin.
 

Get out of here with reason and logic!  It's much easier to be aggro over the Rogers trade!

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Malike
Malike

Putting any stock into his start tonight, his first day with a new team, a new catcher and not having any time with the pitching coaches is silly. Give him a few turns through the order, then blow you

interloper
interloper

So you're just completely discounting the possibility that the O's are working on specific things with him and told him to ignore results that first start? I'm not sure why you would knowing what we k

Moose Milligan
Moose Milligan

The Trevor Rogers outrage on here is hilarious and over the top. 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
Posted
Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Get out of here with reason and logic!  It's much easier to be aggro over the Rogers trade!

It’s such an odd thing to be so crazy about.

OTOH, it’s completely expected because people to this day still can’t figure out what a small sample size is and why they shouldn’t draw conclusions from them.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s such an odd thing to be so crazy about.

OTOH, it’s completely expected because people to this day still can’t figure out what a small sample size is and why they shouldn’t draw conclusions from them.

I get the frustration of not getting a guy that could step into the rotation and deliver right away.  I get that.

But the complete over the top bemoaning of this trade because this is the only season that'll absolutely matter is ridiculous.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I get the frustration of not getting a guy that could step into the rotation and deliver right away.  I get that.

But the complete over the top bemoaning of this trade because this is the only season that'll absolutely matter is ridiculous.  

Right. But even understanding the desire for right now help, we don’t know that we could have gotten right now help for these 2. There were no comparable trades that suggest we could have.

On top of that, the idea that some people say Elias didn’t take the best deal is really what makes no sense to me. That means people literally believe Elias is trying to sabotage the team so he can say he turned a guy around.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Right. But even understanding the desire for right now help, we don’t know that we could have gotten right now help for these 2. There were no comparable trades that suggest we could have.

On top of that, the idea that some people say Elias didn’t take the best deal is really what makes no sense to me. That means people literally believe Elias is trying to sabotage the team so he can say he turned a guy around.

Right, because Norby and Stowers should have netted a better player simply because people here think they should have.  

Elias makes the best moves he thinks he can make given what information he has.  To think that he passed up on a significantly better player than Rogers for Norby/Stowers is ridiculous.  

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right, because Norby and Stowers should have netted a better player simply because people here think they should have.  

Elias makes the best moves he thinks he can make given what information he has.  To think that he passed up on a significantly better player than Rogers for Norby/Stowers is ridiculous.  

It’s not just here. It’s the prevailing thought on Os social media. It’s so bad.

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Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not just here. It’s the prevailing thought on Os social media. It’s so bad.

Plenty of control time left for crow eating. 

We'll see. He sure hasn't been much help this year. If Norby was still in AAA and Stowers was stinking you wouldn't hear jack...

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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18 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right, because Norby and Stowers should have netted a better player simply because people here think they should have.  

Elias makes the best moves he thinks he can make given what information he has.  To think that he passed up on a significantly better player than Rogers for Norby/Stowers is ridiculous.  

He might have, if he was willing to trade them for a two-month rental.  I’m glad he didn’t.  

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Just now, Frobby said:

He might have, if he was willing to trade them for a two-month rental.  I’m glad he didn’t.  

That's possible.  I'm not sure what kind of rental we'd have received in return.

I'll also say here that the ridiculous, over the top takes on not being able to trade guys and have them go on to find success elsewhere is a little bizarre, too.  Like, people were happy to see Ortiz have success in Milwaukee but only because we got some significant value back for him in Burnes.  

Now that Burnes has been bad for the past month, I'm expecting the "Why'd we trade Ortiz and Hall for this guy?" comments to start cropping up.

Stowers and Norby seem like good guys and solid ballplayers with some flaws.  I want to see them do well wherever they go, just as long as it's not against us.  I want to see Norby become a great player, I want to see Stowers reach his potential.

This whole attitude that we have to "win" every trade by being the ones who come out ahead on talent and performance is absurd and just not living in any kind of reality.  That never happens no matter how good your GM or your talent evaluators are and it's stupid to think that way.  

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's possible.  I'm not sure what kind of rental we'd have received in return.

Kikuchi is the comp that has been mentioned but I don't think Stowers/Norby would have been enough. Houston got Wagner, an infielder with some skill set comps to Norby; Loperfido, a centerfielder who has a similar AAA OPS to Stowers; plus a SP who is maybe equivalent to Povich or McDermott. And that was for a rental of Kikuchi who has 1 WAR this year and barely 4 WAR career.

Fedde was a lot cheaper but he has been Rogers-esque for the Cards. Better than Rogers but not a needle mover yet.

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dystopia Hangout Grand Counsel

dystopia

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Posted

To be clear, my beef is not with trading Norby and Stowers. They needed to be traded. I have a beef with who Elias chose to target. Rogers is bad and has been for quite some time. Now, maybe there just wasn’t anyone else available that Elias could trade for, but considering the White Sox got squat for Fedde, it’s hard to believe he couldn’t beat that unless Getz just has it out for Baltimore for whatever reason. 
 

The real problem, IMO, is not trading Norby and Stowers last offseason, or last deadline. 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

To be clear, my beef is not with trading Norby and Stowers. They needed to be traded. I have a beef with who Elias chose to target. Rogers is bad and has been for quite some time. Now, maybe there just wasn’t anyone else available that Elias could trade for, but considering the White Sox got squat for Fedde, it’s hard to believe he couldn’t beat that unless Getz just has it out for Baltimore for whatever reason. 
 

The real problem, IMO, is not trading Norby and Stowers last offseason, or last deadline. 

They got 2 19 year old prospects (and a 24 y/o) for Fedde. They wanted high upside lottery tickets.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Get out of here with reason and logic!  It's much easier to be aggro over the Rogers trade!

Just because the Orioles may have ideas that would help Rogers doesn’t mean their intent wasn’t to plug him into their rotation and have him give them a chance to win every 5 days.  It absolutely was.   This was a present and future move and the present part of it isn’t looking so good.   If someone is trying to retroactively sell this as a 2025-26 move only, don’t buy it.  It’s complete BS.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

He might have, if he was willing to trade them for a two-month rental.  I’m glad he didn’t.  

As has been said before, what good are Trevor Roger’s two extra years of service time if he stinks?    

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just because the Orioles may have ideas that would help Rogers doesn’t mean their intent wasn’t to plug him into their rotation and have him give them a chance to win every 5 days.  It absolutely was.   This was a present and future move and the present part of it isn’t looking so good.   If someone is trying to retroactively sell this as a 2025-26 move only, don’t buy it.  It’s complete BS.

If it was he would have been sent down immediately to work on things.

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