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o'sfan2009

By o'sfan2009
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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

Posted
Posted
Oldfan is right about Werth being better than Nick at the moment. He was actually much better this year. Better defensively too.

Right and those here arguing with me are doing it just to be contentious and no other reason at all. Thank you for your spot on post!:clap3:

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
No it is not.

That is the question. You added the qualifier of "in the WS if Charlie Manuel could choose."

The question is in the present tense. So whether that be the WS or earlier this season, whatever, don't see the difference.

With no DH, his lineup is correct based on who is better unless you want to move Utley to third. With a DH, Nick doesn't even make the team since Werth is the better fielder and Reimold and Roberts(if not playing 2nd) are better choices for DH.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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The only thing I am saying and will until Hell freezes over that right now, if I am Charlie Manual and I have a choice of players from the Orioles starting lineup to replace a man in the Phillies starting lineup in this WS it would be Matt Wieters. I wouldn't even consider replacing Werth with Markakis.

That is fine and I would agree with that sentiment. But, it complete ignores the original question.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

Posted
Posted
The question is in the present tense. So whether that be the WS or earlier this season, whatever, don't see the difference.

With no DH, his lineup is correct based on who is better unless you want to move Utley to third. With a DH, Nick doesn't even make the team since Werth is the better fielder and Reimold and Roberts(if not playing 2nd) are better choices for DH.

Good Lord. Stop that! You are making too much sense!:laughlol::clap3:

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
That's not his claim...he's claiming he's vastly better baserunner. Based on nothing really...
Man by man I would take every Phillie except Wieters over every Oriole including Werth over Markakis anyday of the week. This just truly shows how far a gap there is between the lowly Orioles and a World Champion quality team.

So how is that not his claim?

Yeah, after Scottie said Markakis is a better hitter(not currently true), fielder(ditto), and base runner(debatable), oldfan made the claim about base running, which was based on something, steals.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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So how is that not his claim?

Yeah, after Scottie said Markakis is a better hitter(not currently true), fielder(ditto), and base runner(debatable), oldfan made the claim about base running, which was based on something, steals.

Probably why they were reaching to the point of bring my originally very mis-guided premature judgment of Flacco into the argument! its called "grasping at straws!":laughlol::rofl::mwahaha::eektf:

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ejf1025 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ejf1025

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So how is that not his claim?

Yeah, after Scottie said Markakis is a better hitter(not currently true), fielder(ditto), and base runner(debatable), oldfan made the claim about base running, which was based on something, steals.

He answered one question....Werth over Markakis...fine, his opinion, the data from this year supports it.

Then...as per normal...he overextends his argument...claiming that Werth is a vastly superior baserunner. His metrics were height, steals and steals success.

People have justifiably taken issue with that--and pointed out past leaps in logic that he uses.

Being a better basestealer does not equate to being a better baserunner...height has nothing to do with being a better baserunner...James shows clear data refuting the idea that he is a "vastly superior" baserunner...it was discarded for being from the past and not current....

I mean...how are you not seeing the ridiculous and confounding thread he is spinning??

Werth over Markakis right now...fine. Perfectly legit.

Nearly every other word and evidence that he's presented is biased and flawed...and it deserves to be dismissed outright. Which thankfully, most people have done.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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Posted
He answered one question....Werth over Markakis...fine, his opinion, the data from this year supports it.

Then...as per normal...he overextends his argument...claiming that Werth is a vastly superior baserunner. His metrics were height, steals and steals success.

People have justifiably taken issue with that--and pointed out past leaps in logic that he uses.

Being a better basestealer does not equate to being a better baserunner...height has nothing to do with being a better baserunner...James shows clear data refuting the idea that he is a "vastly superior" baserunner...it was discarded for being from the past and not current....

I mean...how are you not seeing the ridiculous and confounding thread he is spinning??

Werth over Markakis right now...fine. Perfectly legit.

Nearly every other word and evidence that he's presented is biased and flawed...and it deserves to be dismissed outright. Which thankfully, most people have done.

The baserunning entered into it when someone posted Markakis was better and I said he wasn't and pointed out steals. To most baseball fans baserunning is usually equated to stealing bases. It really isn't that difficult not to be a smart base runner. It just seems that way when you watch the Orioles and I do agree that Markakis is one of the smarter ones, albeit extremely conservative. Again, that is not necessarily good baserunning skills, just not being stupid!

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ejf1025 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ejf1025

Posted
Posted
The baserunning entered into it when someone posted Markakis was better and I said he wasn't and pointed out steals. To most baseball fans baserunning is usually equated to stealing bases. It really isn't that difficult not to be a smart base runner. It just seems that way when you watch the Orioles and I do agree that Markakis is one of the smarter ones, albeit extremely conservative. Again, that is not necessarily good baserunning skills, just not being stupid!

Are you dense? Can you process information? Look this over....

XBT% (extra base taken on a single or double)

M-41% W-36%

1st S3 (Times as a runner on first and a single is hit and reaches third or scores)

M-12 W-9

PO (Runner picked off)

M-0 W-3

RS% (percentage of times as runner player scores)

M-11% W-10%

2nd SH (Times on second and runner scores on hit)

M-21 W-11

He scores more often when on base (and that's with a terrible lineup), he takes the extra base more often...

What about this data suggests that Markakis is more conservative?

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
Posted
He answered one question....Werth over Markakis...fine, his opinion, the data from this year supports it.

Then...as per normal...he overextends his argument...claiming that Werth is a vastly superior baserunner. His metrics were height, steals and steals success.

People have justifiably taken issue with that--and pointed out past leaps in logic that he uses.

Being a better basestealer does not equate to being a better baserunner...height has nothing to do with being a better baserunner...James shows clear data refuting the idea that he is a "vastly superior" baserunner...it was discarded for being from the past and not current....

I mean...how are you not seeing the ridiculous and confounding thread he is spinning??

Werth over Markakis right now...fine. Perfectly legit.

Nearly every other word and evidence that he's presented is biased and flawed...and it deserves to be dismissed outright. Which thankfully, most people have done.

To be fair, he didn't bring up the baserunning, and he was getting bashed for picking Werth over Nick in general. Others made baserunning a focus of this thread much more-so than he did. And then you and others started bringing up things that have nothing to do with this thread to make him look worse.

Power has been another focus of this thread, with people using career hr's and dividing that by how many years they've been in the league. Well that's a poor at best way to reach a conclusion. Werth actually has 400 less ab's in his career than Nick and 16 more hr's. More importantly he doubled Nick's hr production this year. At least Crazysilver noticed this problem before.

This thread is an example of the response to a post being more about who said, not what was said.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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That is fine and I would agree with that sentiment. But, it complete ignores the original question.

Again, original question is in the present tense. Werth is presently better than Markakis, no question about it. So regardless of importance of game, Werth is the choice.

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