Are Stats for Dorks?

[Miller192]

You have your answer in front of you. It's pretty amazing to me, too. And not just because nearly all of them are directed at me. I mean, I taught university, wrote, published a book of poetry, and worked as a wine broker selling classified growth Bordeaux, all of which I did for longer than I've been a lawyer.

The steady stream of lawyer jokes calls to mind Emerson's "foolish consistency." Only moreso. Then again, it is the season of hobgoblins.

I only asked the question about "real life" because it seems to me that a lot of folks who post on here - and use statistics - actually have pretty full lives (families, hobbies, passions, etc.) Granted, I get that sense second-hand because I don't know people in person. But I'd be loathe to say that somone with a job, a wife, and a couple of rugrats doesn't have a "real life."

I certainly wasn't defending myself - my life is what it is. I work hard, drink too much, date waitresses, watch a lot of live rock and roll, visit museums and galleries, bluff my way through dinner parties, read fitfully and mostly try to stave off boredom. All of which may, or may not, be real.

Man, you and I have a lot in common.

[Lucky Jim]

Man, you and I have a lot in common.

I feel for you.

[Old#5fan]

But rep birds are just a silly stat measuring what other people actually think about a person's posts. Nothing more than an achievement for dorks.

I for one don't need such silliness, and can tell how good a person's posts are using my own eyes.

Who cares? I just think they look cool!

[VTmook213]

Stats are not the be-all end-all of an evaluation tool, nor should they be. However, to say that what you observe with your eyes is the be-all, end-all of an evaluation tool would also be incorrect.

Stats are simply another tool to help us gather more information about a player/team ... just like observations. Choosing to ignore one method of evaluation while labeling the other as "supreme" is simply short-sighted and leaves the evaluater at a disadvantage because they don't have all the information that is available. Both can be used as complementary tools to help fill in the gaps of what the other lacks.

[byrdz]

This post reflects my basic stance since I began posting here. Not only do some stats geeks not know what they are seeing on the field, they refuse to accept advice from those who do! Case in point, I used to post over on Sunspot and there was a raging debate at the time as to who should win the starting second base job - Roberts or Hairston. Most of the stats geeks over there favored Hairston and a small minority Roberts and this went on for days. Finally, I posted that not only was Roberts way, way WAY better than Hairston, I stated why this was the case and it was a NO BRAINER. I said just watch the two on the field and forget about the STATS. I said Roberts was a switch hitter who made better contact and played solid defense. Whereas Hairston fancied himself a home run hitter for some bizarre reason and consistently overswung. Furthermore, he was a hot dog on defense in that he tried to make a routine play look spectacular when it wasn't. He used to drive me nuts watching him as well as that stupid thing he did with flicking dust off his bat (he doesn't do any of this stupid stuff anymore but did it routinely as an Oriole).

Off topic a bit. The ironic part about the Hairston/Roberts debates back in the day is that Hairston looks like he'll be getting a WS ring and Roberts probably never.

[Old#5fan]

Off topic a bit. The ironic part about the Hairston/Roberts debates back in the day is that Hairston looks like he'll be getting a WS ring and Roberts probably never.

What to me is even more ironic (and poetic justice) is the Yankees are going to finally win it all again immediately after Mussina retired!:laughlol:

[Frobby]

What to me is even more ironic (and poetic justice) is the Yankees are going to finally win it all again immediately after Mussina retired!:laughlol:

Explain the poetic justice to me. Is it because the Yankees no longer have mercenaries who came to NY for the almighty buck on their team?

It actually irks me that the Yankees may win now that the one player on their team who I liked is retired.

[lint06]

Not necessarily. If your batting average on balls in play is too high, it could be likely that you are a lucky hitter and your batting average could be misleading. Especially if you are a free-swinger who makes a lot of contact but never walks; your average, and therefore your value and perceived ability, will fluctuate.

So if you get a hit three out of every ten times you come to the plate (which you likely mean as "at-bats", completely different from "times you come to the plate", also known as plate appearances), it means...you get a hit three out of every ten times you come to the plate.

Yes. Glad we are on the same page...

[RShack]

What to me is even more ironic (and poetic justice) is the Yankees are going to finally win it all again immediately after Mussina retired!:laughlol:

All the Mussina hate is way off target. If there is any poetic justice, it would be if they didn't win as long as Jeter kept playing SS after making the best SS in the history of the planet move to 3B. If they win, it will be because they spent enough to overcome the wishes of even the Baseball Gods. That would mean that I'll lose my annual bet with a guy from NY that I've been winning every single year since Jeter did that.

I should know this from Catholic elementary school, but I forget: Who were the bad angels? Lucifer and who else? Do we have enough names to distribute them among the MFY mercenaries?

[Mackus]

All the Mussina hate is way off target. If there is any poetic justice, it would be if they didn't win as long as Jeter kept playing SS after making the best SS in the history of the planet move to 3B. If they win, it will be because they spent enough to overcome the wishes of even the Baseball Gods. That would mean that I'll lose my annual bet with a guy from NY that I've been winning every single year since Jeter did that.

I should know this from Catholic elementary school, but I forget: Who were the bad angels? Lucifer and who else? Do we have enough names to distribute them among the MFY mercenaries?

Well, Jeter has become a much better defender over recent years. At least according to most defensive metrics. I think its reasonable to assume that he might be better than ARod over there now, I'm not sure ARod moves as well as he used to with the added muscle he appears to have and the injuries he's dealt with.

Definitely agree it was a stupid move at the time, ARod was orders of magnitude better than him when he first came over.

[wickedwitch]

Is it because the Yankees no longer have mercenaries who came to NY for the almighty buck on their team?

I assume this is sarcasm.

[RShack]

Well, Jeter has become a much better defender over recent years. At least according to most defensive metrics. I think its reasonable to assume that he might be better than ARod over there now, I'm not sure ARod moves as well as he used to with the added muscle he appears to have and the injuries he's dealt with.

Definitely agree it was a stupid move at the time, ARod was orders of magnitude better than him when he first came over.

Oh, it's not about now. It's about committing what Catholics called a "mortal sin" (which were basically felonies that could send you to hell; "venal sins" were like misdemeanors, they'd just get you more time in Purgatory. Not sure if they still have that distinction). At the time it happened, it was a rotten thing to do. It was the first thing in a long time that made me think highly of Pete Rose. That guy didn't care where the manager told him to play, he'd just go out and be an All Star there too, no matter where it was. But not Miss Jeter. Apart from him being a Yankee, it's the one and only thing I have against the guy. It prevented all of us, everybody who likes baseball, from seeing what the best SS ever could actually do over a SS career. So, it was Jeter putting his own ego in front of everything and everybody, not just ARod, but all of baseball.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So we've gone from discussing stats/dorks, lawyers, Jerry Hairston/Brian Roberts, Mike Mussina as a mercinary and now Derek Jeter's defense.

Wow, this thread has about 6 years of OH debate condensed into 7 short pages!

[crawdad]

Well, Jeter has become a much better defender over recent years. At least according to most defensive metrics. I think its reasonable to assume that he might be better than ARod over there now, I'm not sure ARod moves as well as he used to with the added muscle he appears to have and the injuries he's dealt with.

Definitely agree it was a stupid move at the time, ARod was orders of magnitude better than him when he first came over.

Yeah, I would be shocked if Arod could play shortstop anymore.

[El Gordo]

Oh, it's not about now. It's about committing what Catholics called a "mortal sin" (which were basically felonies that could send you to hell; "venal sins" were like misdemeanors, they'd just get you more time in Purgatory. Not sure if they still have that distinction). At the time it happened, it was a rotten thing to do. It was the first thing in a long time that made me think highly of Pete Rose. That guy didn't care where the manager told him to play, he'd just go out and be an All Star there too, no matter where it was. But not Miss Jeter. Apart from him being a Yankee, it's the one and only thing I have against the guy. It prevented all of us, everybody who likes baseball, from seeing what the best SS ever could actually do over a SS career. So, it was Jeter putting his own ego in front of everything and everybody, not just ARod, but all of baseball.

Well, look at it this way. It prevented Aroid from passing Cal for career HR at at SS.:laughlol: