Yankees on verge of getting C. Lee

[Mackus]

This entire sport is really starting to get on my Fing nerves. The Yankees can afford to always give away their best prospects because all they have to do to reload is buy the best players. Where the hell is the competitive balance. What a joke and Baseball should be ashamed.

I agree.

I'm not mad at the Yankees. I'm almost glad they are being so damn aggressive because it makes it easier to point out the obvious flaws in the system. I don't generally like revenue sharing, but that's the only way to prevent the Yankees from doing this stuff. If you just cap salaries, they'll just pump their revenues into international signings and the draft and spend orders of magnitudes more money than everyone else. Instead of constantly having a fresh pipeline of expensive FA talent coming in, they'd have an endless fresh pipeline of the absolute best prospects in baseball coming up and the resources to max out up to the payroll cap every year. Different method, same result.

Short of complete revenue sharing, I think the only way to make things even would be a completely international and strictly slotted draft and have a salary cap. That way, the Yankees would still have a ton more revenue, but wouldn't have a way to pump that money directly into acquiring talent, they'd just make a crapload more profit than every other team.

[Dipper9]

Once the Yanks get Lee, does Javier Vazquez become the top starter on the market? I suppose you could say Oswalt is #1 but the Stos demands coupled with his contract duration make him unlikely to be dealt. I was hoping that Guthrie would be in play once Lee gets dealt but I believe we'll have to wait for Vazquez to get moved.

Word going around is that the Yanks will then send Vasquez to Philly for Jason Werth. If the Yanks get Lee and Werth the season is over for everyone else.

I can't say the Lee trade is an unfair one though, The Yanks are giving up their best prospect for him. I guess they have seen enough of Cervelli (aka the Great Gazzu) to think he can handle the job once Posada retires? :scratchchinhmm:

[Hooded Viper]

I agree.

I'm not mad at the Yankees. I'm almost glad they are being so damn aggressive because it makes it easier to point out the obvious flaws in the system. I don't generally like revenue sharing, but that's the only way to prevent the Yankees from doing this stuff. If you just cap salaries, they'll just pump their revenues into international signings and the draft and spend orders of magnitudes more money than everyone else. Instead of constantly having a fresh pipeline of expensive FA talent coming in, they'd have an endless fresh pipeline of the absolute best prospects in baseball coming up and the resources to max out up to the payroll cap every year. Different method, same result.

Short of complete revenue sharing, I think the only way to make things even would be a completely international and strictly slotted draft and have a salary cap. That way, the Yankees would still have a ton more revenue, but wouldn't have a way to pump that money directly into acquiring talent, they'd just make a crapload more profit than every other team.

From your lips, or in this case fingertips, to God's ears. That is way too forward thinking for this sport. Selig is certainly not going to be the guy to impliment such a revolutionary business model. This sport is in dire need of a visionary commissioner like Pete Rozelle was for the NFL.

[NewMarketSean]

We're, what, 7-8 years into the "Yankees getting everyone" era, right?

In that era, they been to 2 World Series, and have won 1.

Maybe in another 20 years, after the Yankees with half of those WS, will baseball change things. After all, the Yankees winning WS means money for the MLB.

Also, until the Rays go back into a decade long suck-mode, they are pretty much ruining the whole argument for small market teams, including the O's. They are 2 games back of the Yankees right now and would be the wild card if the season ended today.

[SammyBirdland]

Are the Yankees really doing anything financially that most other teams couldn't also be doing?

Forbes 400 mainstay George Steinbrenner has kept his $1.3 billion fortune steady with the New York Yankees.

Baltimore Orioles owner Peter Angelos had $1.2 billion as of the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans last September, but we estimate his investments outside the team fell at least 30% during the recent market turmoil. That drop kept him off our list of the World's Billionaires in March despite the Orioles' value staying flat at $250 million this year. Angelos' stake in the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN), which broadcasts Orioles and Washington Nationals games, adds millions more to his fortune.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/22/baseball-billionaires-baseball-values-09-business-billionaires-wealth.html

The Yankees know they have to buy the best players in order to win. The rest of the teams know it as well, but they don't want to make the investment. Instead they say they "support the Tampa Bay Rays' business model", meaning they'll spend as little as possible and hope they get lucky.

[Hooded Viper]

We're, what, 7-8 years into the "Yankees getting everyone" era, right?

In that era, they been to and have won 1 World Series.

Maybe in another 20 years, after the Yankees with half of those WS, will baseball change things. After all, the Yankees winning WS means money for the MLB.

Also, until the Rays go back into a decade long suck-mode, they are pretty much ruining the whole argument for small market teams, including the O's. They are 2 games back of the Yankees right now and would be the wild card if the season ended today.

Just because they haven't won world series doesn't mean jack in my eyes they are always in the playoffs and reload at will. The luxury tax doesn't hamper them in any way so don't give me that crap argument.

And as for the Rays, how many years in a row did they have the 1st pick in the draft? How many years of suck did they have to endure before those early picks started to blossom and they will soon suck again because many of their players are starting to get to the point where they will cost too much to keep around, ie Carl Crawford.

Bottom line is the Revenue system for this sport is a complete joke.

[NewMarketSean]

More examples of "parity" in baseball...

Since 2001, 8 world series winners in 9 years (ARZ, LAA, FLA, BOS, CWS, STL, PHI and NYY).

Teams like the Diamondbacks, Rockies, Tigers, White Sox, Phillies and Rays -- all teams who have not been to the WS at all, or in many years, at least made it.

[NewMarketSean]

Just because they haven't won world series doesn't mean jack in my eyes they are always in the playoffs and reload at will. The luxury tax doesn't hamper them in any way so don't give me that crap argument.

And as for the Rays, how many years in a row did they have the 1st pick in the draft? How many years of suck did they have to endure before those early picks started to blossom and they will soon suck again because many of their players are starting to get to the point where they will cost too much to keep around, ie Carl Crawford.

Bottom line is the Revenue system for this sport is a complete joke.

I agree, things need to change.

But from baseball's standpoint, there are many examples that they can cite to prove that the game is as healthy, and fair, as ever.

And as long as teams are smart, they can still win and have a chance come October. We as O's fans, are perhaps bitter about this since our team is probably the dumbest in the game.

[Jagwar]

Short of complete revenue sharing, I think the only way to make things even would be a completely international and strictly slotted draft and have a salary cap. That way, the Yankees would still have a ton more revenue, but wouldn't have a way to pump that money directly into acquiring talent, they'd just make a crapload more profit than every other team.

Put a third team in the NY market... maybe Brooklyn. Try to spread the available revenue around.

Heck, there was a recent report that Connecticut could even support a team, even while surrounded by the Red Sox and Yankees markets

[Hooded Viper]

More examples of "parity" in baseball...

Since 2001, 8 world series winners in 9 years (ARZ, LAA, FLA, BOS, CWS, STL, PHI and NYY).

Teams like the Tigers, White Sox, Phillies and Rays -- all teams who have not been to the WS in years, at least made it.

PARITY????? Every team you listed on there with the exception of the Rays are big market towns with maybe SL being a mid market team. Arizona's ownership group chased their franchise to the brink of bankruptcy and Texas is bankrupt trying to keep up with the big boys. You can't possibly tell me you think this system is working? If so you are just blind.

Edit: Sorry for the "blind" comment. This subject just gets me stirred up!

[Jagwar]

I agree, things need to change.

But from baseball's standpoint, there are many examples that they can cite to prove that the game is as healthy, and fair, as ever.

And as long as teams are smart, they can still win and have a chance come October. We as O's fans, are perhaps bitter about this since our team is probably the dumbest in the game.

Suppose MLB determined that a current market, like Pittsburgh or Tampa, did not have the revenue potential to support a team (a la the Expos). Wouldn't they likely move the team to a market that could provide revenue support?

On the flip side, why shouldn't MLB consider that the Yankees have TOO MUCH revenue potential relative to other teams, and stick another team (or two) in the NYC market?

[Jagwar]

More examples of "parity" in baseball...

Since 2001, 8 world series winners in 9 years (ARZ, LAA, FLA, BOS, CWS, STL, PHI and NYY).

Teams like the Diamondbacks, Rockies, Tigers, White Sox, Phillies and Rays -- all teams who have not been to the WS at all, or in many years, at least made it.

The WS winners show "parity" in terms of different teams winning, but IMO true parity is measured by postseason appearances. How many times have all of those teams been to the playoffs from 2000 on?

[NewMarketSean]

Would we care about all of this if the Orioles were a winning team most years?

Do you think Phillies or Twins fans care about the state of baseball?

The Orioles suck not because of the Yankees, or Red Sox or anything else other than their incompetence in every aspect of the game.

[Mackus]

Are the Yankees really doing anything financially that most other teams couldn't also be doing?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/22/baseball-billionaires-baseball-values-09-business-billionaires-wealth.html

The Yankees know they have to buy the best players in order to win. The rest of the teams know it as well, but they don't want to make the investment. Instead they say they "support the Tampa Bay Rays' business model", meaning they'll spend as little as possible and hope they get lucky.

Yes, yes they are doing and are capable of doing completely different things from every other team in the sport.

No team could make a fraction of the financial investments that the Yankees can. The max payroll you ever see any other team to is about $140M or so. And that's only for 1-2 years until they have to back it off.

The Yankees have no limit. They consistently spend into the $200M+ range and likely have the revenue to go considerably higher, probably into the $300M+ range if they really wanted to or could find that many players to spend so highly on.

The Yankees make several times more revenue than any other team. No other team has anywhere near the sort of revenue churning operation that the Yankees do.

[Mackus]

Would we care about all of this if the Orioles were a winning team most years?

Do you think Phillies or Twins fans care about the state of baseball?

The Orioles suck not because of the Yankees, or Red Sox or anything else other than their incompetence in every aspect of the game.

Unrelated issues, and yes I'd be furious if the Orioles were spending up to their maximum abilities and were still only able to spend a fraction of what the Yankees can.

The Yankees spend so much that they are guaranteed a playoff spot every year. They have to have so many things go wrong to miss the playoffs its ridiculous. When they missed out in 2008, that was probably the biggest disappointment relative to talent in the history of sports (might be hyperbole, but it was bad). Once you get to the playoffs, its a short series and anything can happen, the best team doesn't win considerably more often than the 1/8th you'd expect from just shear chance. But having a free pass to the playoffs every year simply because of your revenue-generating capabilities is unfair.