Could the Angels be clearing a spot for Tejada

[Pickles]

Im not accusing the Os of doing that now, but if gets into January, then I will. And I have yet to see anyone accuse the FO of mistepping yet. All we have said is stuff like "If this deal is true, then AM has to pull the trigger" and so on and so forth.

I guess I misconstrued the, "This could be our last chance to trade Tejada" part of you're thread.

I agree he should be moved this offseason for the best package we can get. I'm just not convinced that we need to move him before MCab gets moved. Honestly, I think we could be better off waiting for that trade to go down first, that's all.

[Pickles]

And neither does Steve Traschell .

Really though, even if just one of them gives us one year of productivity, I will call it a success.

Good stuff, and very true. Considering most were hoping and praying for a fungo to get thrown in with the bag of balls for ST we made out like bandits regardless of the results.

[MikeAD]

I guess I misconstrued the, "This could be our last chance to trade Tejada" part of you're thread.

I agree he should be moved this offseason for the best package we can get. I'm just not convinced that we need to move him before MCab gets moved. Honestly, I think we could be better off waiting for that trade to go down first, that's all.

That might be (probably is) true. I just don't think MCab is traded at all, and if he does, and its to the LAD, then our best option to trade Bedard is cut off.

The package LAD would have to put together to get MCab wouldn't leave anything left for them to get Bedard.

And becuase I REALLY want us to trade with the Dodgers, I think that we have to make a trade before MCab gets dealt, if he does at all.

So in a sense, I guess it is urgent. Even if the return for Tejada goes up if MCab is traded, it could hurt the return for Bedard.

[Pickles]

That might be (probably is) true. I just don't think MCab is traded at all, and if he does, and its to the LAD, then our best option to trade Bedard is cut off.

The package LAD would have to put together to get MCab wouldn't leave anything left for them to get Bedard.

And becuase I REALLY want us to trade with the Dodgers, I think that we have to make a trade before MCab gets dealt, if he does at all.

So in a sense, I guess it is urgent. Even if the return for Tejada goes up if MCab is traded, it could hurt the return for Bedard.

So let's look at this logically. You want to hurry up and trade Tejada so the market for Bedard doesn't dry up? That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. As is so often said here, "It takes two to dance." If the Dodger's want to allocate thier resources to trade for MCab and not Bedard there isn't much we can do about it. Hell, trading Tejada to the Angels only forces thier hand in that regard, imo. I know you bleed black and oarnge; you're just like me feverishly posting in the middle of November after yet another losing season, but just calm down and take a breath. There is a long way to go yet this offseason.

[RShack]

So let's look at this logically. You want to hurry up and trade Tejada so the market for Bedard doesn't dry up? That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. As is so often said here, "It takes two to dance." If the Dodger's want to allocate thier resources to trade for MCab and not Bedard there isn't much we can do about it. Hell, trading Tejada to the Angels only forces thier hand in that regard, imo. I know you bleed black and oarnge; you're just like me feverishly posting in the middle of November after yet another losing season, but just calm down and take a breath. There is a long way to go yet this offseason.

I'm with Pickles on this one. (Even though I hate the sound of that. It sounds like something Rose Marie would've said on the Dick Van Dyke Show ;-)

Everybody else is all worried about what the market is, and are all hurry-hurry about doing something. These are opposite ideas. If you're worried about the market, then you do what you have to do to get the best thing the market will give you. If you're in hurry-hurry mode, you generally don't. Sometimes maybe, but not usually. So, make up your mind: What do you want AM to do? Get the best he can from the market, or do stuff in a hurry just to suit you? You can't have it both ways.

The only possible counter-argument is that the hurry-hurry folks know more about the market than AM does. I can't think of a single reason to believe that. When it comes to reading the market, I'm trusting AM more than the hurry-hurry folks. I saw lots of stuff from the hurry-hurry folks about Wieters. And AM did way better than any of the hurry-hurry folks were gonna do. I also saw lots of stuff from the hurry-hurry folks about Trax. And AM did way better than any of the hurry-hurry folks were even thinking about. And then we find out he got a third guy for him too, something we didn't even know about. So, based on what I've seen of how it turns out between AM's judgment vs. the hurry-hurry folks, I'm putting my money on AM.

I think the man knows what he's doing more than anybody around here. He had nothing to do with past boneheaded decisions the O's made. He's not gonna be telling other GM's to wait 'til Tuesday while he phones home to check with dad.

[Sports Guy]

As of right now, with ARod and Lowell signed, Furcal moved, the best option, outside of MCab, for either SS or 3rd is Miguel Tejada. There are a lot more than one team looking for an upgrade at those two positions. That can only make him more valuable. Hell, after MCab gets moved, his value should only increase.

Yes but not all of them will be interested in Miggy or have the players to trade for him.

[66-70-83-??]

Yes but not all of them will be interested in Miggy or have the players to trade for him.

Some teams may view Rolen, Blalock, or Crede as a better 3B option than Tejada, when you factor in either the salary, familiarity with position (is it really a slam dunk that it will be a smooth transition?), cost of acquisition, etc......

Unfortunately, I bet lot of teams have "enough" to acquire Tejada.

Tejada, with his play last year, in effect put a "for sale" (ie discount) tag on himself.

[Sports Guy]

Some teams may view Rolen, Blalock, or Crede as a better 3B option than Tejada, when you factor in either the salary, familiarity with position (is it really a slam dunk that it will be a smooth transition?), cost of acquisition, etc......

Unfortunately, I bet lot of teams have "enough" to acquire Tejada.

Tejada, with his play last year, in effect put a "for sale" (ie discount) tag on himself.

Right...If the Cubs or Angels don't get Tejada, where does he go?

Yes, a team like the Giants may get involved but they don't have enough talent, assuming Cain and Lincecum, aren't in a Miggy deal.

We need to trade with someone who can give us some ML ready position players.

[davearm]

I'm with Pickles too.

And the Trachsel and Bedard situations have a lot in common. They're both instances where MacPhail's directive is to read the market, and anticipate when the market value of his player will reach its peak.

In the case of Trachsel, MacPhail was seemingly correct in his judgement that maximum value would be obtained by waiting.

What he does with Bedard remains to be seen, but the task is the same. The fact that in the former case he had a Yugo to sell, and now he's got a Ferrari, doesn't really change the market dynamics of the whole deal.

[davearm]

It's been noted on here at length that the O's have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot by taking too long to pull the trigger on deals. Proposals have sat and rotted on Angelos' desk before. Some teams reportedly won't even start talks with the O's because of this.

MacPhail did do right by getting Trax, there's no denying that..yet it remains to be seen what the Moore, Cherry and the minor leaguer we just got will contribute to the longterm goals of this franchise. Nonetheless, the thought process behind the move was definitely a good one.

However, the O's can't really strengthen their position by holding onto players that everyone knows they'll be getting rid of sooner or later. The market may dictate otherwise but the O's holding out has little to do with that.

It's like selling a house, the market dictates how much your house is worth, not the seller, contrary to their belief.

The market does indeed dictate how much your house is worth.

But the point being made here is that the market ebbs and flows. One day it may be a buyer's market, and a month later it may be a seller's market.

MacPhail's job is to read the market, and sell when conditions are at their most favorable. That may be today, or it may be in January, or it may be in July.

[Scribo]

This is a fascinating situation. In all likelihood the Orioles will be the most active players this off-season and will have the greatest turnover on their roster. Yet they are in the market at a time when some huge deals are being discussed that would have ripple effects.

IMO nothing major will happen until we know where the really big dogs will come to rest. As long as Miguel Cabrera* is in play, nothing is likely to happen with the Dodgers and Angels or with any other team that might be hoping to land him. The only way the O's can force the issue on Bedard and Tejada would be to lower their price to such an extent that the Dodgers can't afford to pass it up. That wouldn't be very smart.

Furthermore even if we are talking to teams other than the Angels and Dodgers -- the Mariners, for example -- we would want to have all potential trading partners in play as leverage.

The pieces are starting to fall into place. Lowell is staying in Boston. ARod presumably is back with the Spankees. This will happen. And it may involve teams and talents that we haven't even talked about.

*Hey everybody deserves to have his name spelled out once in a while.

[66-70-83-??]

This is a fascinating situation. In all likelihood the Orioles will be the most active players this off-season and will have the greatest turnover on their roster. Yet they are in the market at a time when some huge deals are being discussed that would have ripple effects.

IMO nothing major will happen until we know where the really big dogs will come to rest. As long as Miguel Cabrera* is in play, nothing is likely to happen with the Dodgers and Angels or with any other team that might be hoping to land him. The only way the O's can force the issue on Bedard and Tejada would be to lower their price to such an extent that the Dodgers can't afford to pass it up. That wouldn't be very smart.

Furthermore even if we are talking to teams other than the Angels and Dodgers -- the Mariners, for example -- we would want to have all potential trading partners in play as leverage.

The pieces are starting to fall into place. Lowell is staying in Boston. ARod presumably is back with the Spankees. This will happen. And it may even involve teams and talents that we haven't even talked about.

*Hey everybody deserves to have his name spelled out once in a while.

Not necessarily.

As long as there are teams competing for Miguel Cabrera- MacPhail can leverage the situation. A team that may lose out (or think they may) on MCab could be pressured into "blinking" so they don't lose out on both MCab and Miggy.

LAA, Chi, LAD, NYM, NYY, Phi have all been rumored potential destinations for Miggy.

LAA, LAD, NYM, Tex have been rumored potential destinations for Bedard.

That is enough competition to give AM all the leverage he needs.

He may wait for the AROD and MCAB chips to cash, but he doesn't have to.

I predict he will read the tea leaves correctly and make a good deal or two or three....

[Scribo]

That is enough competition to give AM all the leverage he needs.

He may wait for the AROD and MCAB chips to cash, but he doesn't have to.

I predict he will read the tea leaves correctly and make a good deal or two or three....

You could be right (after all Bedard qualifies as a Big Dog too). I'm sure that there are even more angles that we are not aware of.

Like I say: a fascinating situation.

I feel good about MacPhail, and I do think that there's a good chance for a franchise-changing windfall if the cards are played correctly. But I hope the deal does not have to sit on PA's desk before it is approved. AM needs to be able to push the button when the moment is right.

[section34]

I'm with El Gordo.

Why would the Angels trade OCab to make room for Miggy? They have Wood and Aybar to play short and Figgins at 3rd.

This is a move to go after MCab.

Getting Miggy over OCab would be a downgrade for the Angels because they'd lose OCab plus players/prospects for Miggy and Garland...doesn't make sense.

[Sports Guy]

I'm with El Gordo.

Why would the Angels trade OCab to make room for Miggy? They have Wood and Aybar to play short and Figgins at 3rd.

This is a move to go after MCab.

Getting Miggy over OCab would be a downgrade for the Angels because they'd lose OCab plus players/prospects for Miggy and Garland...doesn't make sense.

How does trading a SS signify a move for a third baseman?