Players changing position

[sevens]

Here is a question just because I have no idea.

You often here of players moving from ss to 3b and 3b to 1b.

Is there any reason that a 3b cannot move to 2b ?

Just wondering.

Thanks

[blueberryale77]

Here is a question just because I have no idea.

You often here of players moving from ss to 3b and 3b to 1b.

Is there any reason that a 3b cannot move to 2b ?

Just wondering.

Thanks

Obviously it depends on the individual player, but shortstops can usually move just about anywhere (at least defensively... many are not big enough to provide the power you want from a corner position, and you might also argue that a 1B should be taller than most shortstops are). Third basemen can usually move to first easily, whereas first basemen may not have the arm to play third. A third baseman (at least one who wasn't originally a SS or 2B and moved because their team had a glut of players at one position) moving to 2B is rare and unlikely to be successful because middle infielders need to cover more ground and be more athletic. 3Bs are usually a lot bigger than 2Bs. The Rockies are actually currently trying this experiment with Ian Stewart who is blocked at 3B by Garrett Atkins, but I can't imagine it working. He's 200 lbs and well over 6' tall, which is virtually unheard of for a 2B. A strong-armed 2B should be able to adjust to 3B pretty easily but might not provide the offense you want there. Generally speaking 2Bs are former SS whose arms aren't that great while 3Bs are former SS whose range isn't that great.

[RShack]

He's 200 lbs and well over 6' tall, which is virtually unheard of for a 2B.

That's what everybody said about SS until Earl gave the job to you-know-who.

[sevens]

Obviously it depends on the individual player, but shortstops can usually move just about anywhere (at least defensively... many are not big enough to provide the power you want from a corner position, and you might also argue that a 1B should be taller than most shortstops are). Third basemen can usually move to first easily, whereas first basemen may not have the arm to play third. A third baseman (at least one who wasn't originally a SS or 2B and moved because their team had a glut of players at one position) moving to 2B is rare and unlikely to be successful because middle infielders need to cover more ground and be more athletic. 3Bs are usually a lot bigger than 2Bs. The Rockies are actually currently trying this experiment with Ian Stewart who is blocked at 3B by Garrett Atkins, but I can't imagine it working. He's 200 lbs and well over 6' tall, which is virtually unheard of for a 2B. A strong-armed 2B should be able to adjust to 3B pretty easily but might not provide the offense you want there.

Cool

I thought maybe Moore might be able to move to 2b if Roberts is traded and Morre no longer has a gig @ 3b

Thanks for the insight

[RShack]

Is there any reason that a 3b cannot move to 2b

Depends on how much range they have and whether they can do the double-play ballet. If they could do those things, they'd probably be at 2B to begin with. Unless they've got a lead glove. 3B is not a bad place to put somebody who has a lead glove, simply because 3B gets the fewest chances to screw up of anyplace.

[blueberryale77]

That's what everybody said about SS until Earl gave the job to you-know-who.

...and ruined the position forever. Seriously though, Cal grew up as a SS and had only briefly experimented with moving to 3B. Ian Stewart IIRC was a third baseman even in high school... and wasn't initially a very good one when he was drafted although scouting reports I've read indicate that he's worked extremely hard to improve himself in that department. Also, I do think Cal's size would have interfered with the double play pivot at 2B. I just can't see Cal doing the acrobatic spin and jump over the guy that's coming at you from behind on a regular basis. Then again, this is coming from a high school 2B who's very defensive about the position.

[sevens]

Depends on how much range they have and whether they can do the double-play ballet. If they could do those things, they'd probably be at 2B to begin with. Unless they've got a lead glove. 3B is not a bad place to put somebody who has a lead glove, simply because 3B gets the fewest chances to screw up of anyplace.

I wonder is Brooks Robinson would argue that ???

[blueberryale77]

Cool

I thought maybe Moore might be able to move to 2b if Roberts is traded and Morre no longer has a gig @ 3b

Thanks for the insight

I don't see Moore as having the athleticism to make that move at the Major League level.

[sevens]

I don't see Moore as having the athleticism to make that move at the Major League level.

Once again just wondering.

Thanks

[blueberryale77]

I wonder is Brooks Robinson would argue that ???

The fact that you can stash a lead glove there doesn't mean you have to. Brooks was great there because, while he wasn't fast at all, he had an extremely quick first step. This helps particularly at 3B because you are closer to home plate than a middle IF so the ball gets to you faster. A great arm is also nice to have at 3B. That's generally what distinguishes them from the really shlubby defensive positions of 1B and LF.

[DrungoHazewood]

I've always found it interesting that the job descriptions for second base and third base basically flip-flopped sometime in the 1920s. I'm pretty sure this is the only such position switch in baseball history.

Prior to the 20s second base was where you stashed your big hitting infielder who couldn't really cut it at short or third. In the deadball era third basemen were more important defensively because of all the bunting. You can see the effect of this by looking at the team double play rates in the teens - an average team turned maybe 100, 110 double plays all year and some teams turned as few as 70 or 80. This is kind of like current-day rec league softball. Because about 80% or 90% of rec softball players are right-handed, and it's easy to pull a looping slow pitch, third basemen have to be the daring guys who're willing to get in front of hot smashes. But you'll often stash poor players, women, children, etc at second because you'll sometimes go whole games where only a couple balls are hit there, and on 60-ft bases double plays are quite rare.

Back to baseball... in the late teens Babe Ruth showed up, bunting declined, walks increased, and third base became the place you stuck your big guy who couldn't turn two. By the 1930s double plays were up to about 130 on average, and it was pretty uncommon for any team to be under 100.

If Rogers Hornsby had been born 15 years later he'd probably be thought of as one of the 2-3 best third basemen of all time. And if Troy Glaus had been born in 1890 he might have been put at second base.

So, in 1910 the question would have been "why can't we move our second baseman to third" and the answer would have been "he doesn't have the arm, and he's no good charging the bunt." Today no one really cares if you're only ok fielding bunts, but it's absolutely crucial to have a second baseman who's good on the DP pivot.

[GeorgiaBird]

fyi...

Tampa Bay's Iwamura is doing that (move from 3B to 2B) this season.

[MikeAD]

Does it mean anything that Tony Batista played 3B, SS and 2B?

Well, hes not your typical baseball player..hes Tony freaking Batista

[os1971]

Cool

I thought maybe Moore might be able to move to 2b if Roberts is traded and Morre no longer has a gig @ 3b

Thanks for the insight

I was thinking the exact same thing about Moore playing 2nd if we traded Roberts. He actually came up as a SS but was moved mostly to 3rd and some first. I'm not sure if hes ever played second, but its easier than SS. If Jeff Kent can do it, maybe Moore can.

Trembley seams to value defense pretty highly, so I doubt he'd ever get a shot at it.

[RShack]

I've always found it interesting that the job descriptions for second base and third base basically flip-flopped sometime in the 1920s. I'm pretty sure this is the only such position switch in baseball history.

Prior to the 20s second base was where you stashed your big hitting infielder who couldn't really cut it at short or third. In the deadball era third basemen were more important defensively because of all the bunting. You can see the effect of this by looking at the team double play rates in the teens - an average team turned maybe 100, 110 double plays all year and some teams turned as few as 70 or 80. This is kind of like current-day rec league softball. Because about 80% or 90% of rec softball players are right-handed, and it's easy to pull a looping slow pitch, third basemen have to be the daring guys who're willing to get in front of hot smashes. But you'll often stash poor players, women, children, etc at second because you'll sometimes go whole games where only a couple balls are hit there, and on 60-ft bases double plays are quite rare.

Back to baseball... in the late teens Babe Ruth showed up, bunting declined, walks increased, and third base became the place you stuck your big guy who couldn't turn two. By the 1930s double plays were up to about 130 on average, and it was pretty uncommon for any team to be under 100.

If Rogers Hornsby had been born 15 years later he'd probably be thought of as one of the 2-3 best third basemen of all time. And if Troy Glaus had been born in 1890 he might have been put at second base.

So, in 1910 the question would have been "why can't we move our second baseman to third" and the answer would have been "he doesn't have the arm, and he's no good charging the bunt." Today no one really cares if you're only ok fielding bunts, but it's absolutely crucial to have a second baseman who's good on the DP pivot.

Do you know if they ever thought about moving Pie Traynor to 2B?