Nationals fans angry about Orioles

[backwardsk]

This is literally the first time I have ever read something positive about Dan Snyder

It's not a popular sentiment. But I agree. His track record has been profoundly woeful, but he does want to win. I somewhat compare him to Steinbrenner. He had a horrible decade and a half before letting his baseball people make decisions and helping by opening his wallet. (Now I'm not an expert on him, I don't recall if he was around for their late 70s success and I do know he was suspended when the started drafting talent--so a loose comparison).

The Washington post HATES him and they lead the charge. I believe a lot of Snyder hate has to do with the fact that he's new money and he's not very likable/approachable. Cuban and Jerry jones, on the other hand embrace the celebrity and are entertaining--and they've won it all.

[Redskins Rick]

It's not a popular sentiment. But I agree. His track record has been profoundly woeful, but he does want to win. I somewhat compare him to Steinbrenner. He had a horrible decade and a half before letting his baseball people make decisions and helping by opening his wallet. (Now I'm not an expert on him, I don't recall if he was around for their late 70s success and I do know he was suspended when the started drafting talent--so a loose comparison).

The Washington post HATES him and they lead the charge. I believe a lot of Snyder hate has to do with the fact that he's new money and he's not very likable/approachable. Cuban and Jerry jones, on the other hand embrace the celebrity and are entertaining--and they've won it all.

The one difference between Cuban and Jones. Cuban lets his basketball people run the team, and Jones think he knows everything about football and him and his family control all aspects of the team.

[Going Underground]

LaVar Arrinngton is an Oriole fan.

LaVar then interrupted to ask about fans who live outside of Baltimore but still root for the Orioles because there was no team in the District. Fans like me. I grew up a Redskins and Orioles fan while living in Cheverly and Arlington. I still root for the Orioles. I also root for the Nationals. I don’t root for the Ravens, despite John Harbaugh’s best efforts. Direct your ire here

LaVar then interrupted to ask about fans who live outside of Baltimore but still root for the Orioles because there was no team in the District. Fans like me. I grew up a Redskins and Orioles fan while living in Cheverly and Arlington. I still root for the Orioles. I also root for the Nationals. I don’t root for the Ravens, despite John Harbaugh’s best efforts. Direct your ire here.

[Going Underground]

Found this interesting:

The Nats, not surprisingly, have one of baseballs smallest fan bases in terms of geographic size the franchise is new, our city is packed in between other metropolises, and its a population-dense area. (Still, at least theyre not the Mets or As, who registered a plurality in zero counties.) Here are the counties and municipalities where Nats fans predominate.

Thats it. There arent many of us. Thats 18 counties, the District, and a handful of mostly small cities.

The Orioles have almost but not all of the state of Maryland, while also extending slightly into Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Here are the counties and municipalities where Orioles fans predominate.

* All of Maryland besides Montgomery, Prince Georges and Charles counties which go Nats and the far western Garrett County, which goes Pirates.

* Shenandoah and Accomack counties in Virginia, plus the city of Winchester, which is odd.

* York, Adams and Franklin counties in Pennsylvania.

* Jefferson, Berkeley, Morgan and Hampshire counties in West Virginia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/04/08/a-map-of-the-nats-fan-base/?wprss=rss_sports

[Miss Agnes]

As a Maryland native who has partial ticket plans to both the Nats and the Birds I think I can speak with some knowledge on this rivalry. This whole billboard thing is beyond silly. With the exception of a couple of sport radio hosts, it has been a complete non-issue in DC. In fact, the two Nats message boards I visit don't even have a thread going on it. I never wear Nats stuff while at Camden Yards. I couldn't imagine the crap I'd get. On the other hand, I know I could wear Orioles garb at Nats Park and not hear a peep. It's the oddest thing, people show up to Nats games in gear of teams that Nats aren't even playing that day. Hell, I saw some guy wearing a Johnny Bench jersey and a Reds cap standing next to some dude in an Astros jacket and matching cap a week ago (BTW, the Nats were playing the Braves that day). DC is full of transplants.

And I know that this will sound like treason, but I wish they sold National Boh at Nats Park. There is a LONG history of that beer in the DC area. In fact it is highly responsible for being the factor that got the Orioles to Charm City in the first place (http://nyti.ms/1ne0UWV). The first beer I ever bought at a stadium was a Boh I purchased at RFK for a whopping $1 in 1979.

[gpolee]

Truth. The Orioles had a clear contractual right to block another AL team from moving to DC, but no right to block an NL team. He concocted a dubious legal theory about having some permanent right to the TV market the O's had occupied after the Senstors moved, and threatened to sue. He probably would have lost, but MLB is risk averse so they settled the matter by giving him the MASN deal. People who say that Angelos sold the "rights" don't understand that his legal position was probably a loser.

Thank you, Frobby. The Orioles neither blocked nor could have blocked MLB's move of Montreal's franchise to DC. Baltimore has never blocked a franchise from moving to DC, as DC has done to Baltimore. What the Orioles DID was negotiate a lucrative deal with MLB.

To be accurate, Washington did not steal the Bullets. Baltimore is still operating the dump formerly known as the Civic Center 40+ years after then-Bullets' owner Abe Pollin alerted city leaders about the need for a functional arena.

[Going Underground]

Thank you, Frobby. The Orioles neither blocked nor could have blocked MLB's move of Montreal's franchise to DC. Baltimore has never blocked a franchise from moving to DC, as DC has done to Baltimore. What the Orioles DID was negotiate a lucrative deal with MLB.

To be accurate, Washington did not steal the Bullets. Baltimore is still operating the dump formerly known as the Civic Center 40+ years after then-Bullets' owner Abe Pollin alerted city leaders about the need for a functional arena.

The Senators allowed the Orioles to move to Baltimore.

[Palmoripken]

Okay saw the full text of Dukes' "argument" He says essentially that he understands people who grew up rooting for the O's when D.C didn't have a team and that he himself was and still is something of a Cubs fan. But

he feels that D.C area O's fans should have switched as soon as D.C got a team. Sorry Chad, it doesn't work that way. You build up a lifetime of loyalty to a sports team. As I said earlier, this is the team that made me

fall in love with baseball. They've given me more heartbreak than not but as Roger Kahn said wonderfully in The Boys of Summer "You may revel in a team in victory but you fall in love with a team in defeat." And then

Dukes makes some silly points about how they have more superstars- gee the Orioles suck so bad that they didn't suck enough to land two of the biggest once in a generation type prospects in Strausberg and Harper,

some lame bit about how their stadium is newer- OPACY will be remembered how Ebbets Field, Fenway Park, and Wrigley are in the years to come. Nats Stadium is nice but it's not iconic and a true beauty like OPACY is

And then he says the food is better and Natty Boh sucks. I love to eat as much as the next guy but if you're arguing about food though..............

[Palmoripken]

Found this interesting:

The Nats, not surprisingly, have one of baseballs smallest fan bases in terms of geographic size the franchise is new, our city is packed in between other metropolises, and its a population-dense area. (Still, at least theyre not the Mets or As, who registered a plurality in zero counties.) Here are the counties and municipalities where Nats fans predominate.

Thats it. There arent many of us. Thats 18 counties, the District, and a handful of mostly small cities.

The Orioles have almost but not all of the state of Maryland, while also extending slightly into Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Here are the counties and municipalities where Orioles fans predominate.

* All of Maryland besides Montgomery, Prince Georges and Charles counties which go Nats and the far western Garrett County, which goes Pirates.

* Shenandoah and Accomack counties in Virginia, plus the city of Winchester, which is odd.

* York, Adams and Franklin counties in Pennsylvania.

* Jefferson, Berkeley, Morgan and Hampshire counties in West Virginia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/04/08/a-map-of-the-nats-fan-base/?wprss=rss_sports

I read that the other day. It is odd. Even odder is apparently Loudoun County being Yankees territory which I have to say from living here the past five years, it is not. I as I said yesterday really don't begrudge

any D.C area person who chose to adopt the Nats. I just have a problem with the hostility that exists to those of us who chose to stay with the Orioles. People like Dukes wanted people to basically forget their whole

baseball experiences and built loyalty because "Hey D.C has a team now". I had a cousin who is significantly older than me and one who grew up with the Howard era Senators look at me as if I was a Yankees fan

when I told him I was still an O's fan. Another thing though that's already been mentioned, I do like our players more than theirs too. I like Machado as our young star a lot more than I do Harper. I thought Harper

responded like a complete jerk to that reporter who asked him the question about the beer in Canada a couple years back(and I'm sick of the DC sports media saying he's just a kid whenever he acts like a jerk, Teheran the Braves pitcher that he had the problem with last year is only a year and a half older) and I'll take Gary and Jim over Carperter and Santangelo any day of the week for broadcast teams too. Sorry venting I know

but I'm basically getting at why while I did try to almost adapt the Nats as a second team that I can't.

[MurphDogg]

The Senators allowed the Orioles to move to Baltimore.

Yep, in the same way the Orioles "allowed" the Nationals to move to DC. By negotiating for money and television rights.

[Going Underground]

Yep, in the same way the Orioles "allowed" the Nationals to move to DC. By negotiating for money and television rights.

Money talks and it has forever.

[Dipper9]

Money talks and it has forever.

I believe there is something that walks in this equation as well, no?

[Townie72]

The Washington Sports media --- The Post, Talk Radio, etc --- have a huge interest in the area adopting the Nationals as their team and in increasing the interest in baseball in general. The result has been a huge sales effort on their part. And if making the Orioles out to be the bad guys is what it takes, that's a small price for them to pay.

The Caps and Wizards have small audiences. Not much interest and not much to talk about for the Media with these two.

In fact, based on fan interest, all they blather about continually is the Redskins. I listened to both radio stations yesterday and the conversation was 100% about the Redskins in spite of this being the beginning of the baseball season and the end of the basketball and hockey seasons.

So for these reporters and columnists and talk radio hosts, the Nationals is a whole new product they can talk about. And the hyping of the Nationals has been non-stop for a couple of years. Including last year's World Series as a near certainty predictions.

The DC media isn't reporting on the Nationals .... It's selling them.

[riprulz8]

Found this interesting:

The Nats, not surprisingly, have one of baseballs smallest fan bases in terms of geographic size the franchise is new, our city is packed in between other metropolises, and its a population-dense area. (Still, at least theyre not the Mets or As, who registered a plurality in zero counties.) Here are the counties and municipalities where Nats fans predominate.

Thats it. There arent many of us. Thats 18 counties, the District, and a handful of mostly small cities.

The Orioles have almost but not all of the state of Maryland, while also extending slightly into Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Here are the counties and municipalities where Orioles fans predominate.

* All of Maryland besides Montgomery, Prince Georges and Charles counties which go Nats and the far western Garrett County, which goes Pirates.

* Shenandoah and Accomack counties in Virginia, plus the city of Winchester, which is odd.

* York, Adams and Franklin counties in Pennsylvania.

* Jefferson, Berkeley, Morgan and Hampshire counties in West Virginia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/04/08/a-map-of-the-nats-fan-base/?wprss=rss_sports

You'd also be shocked at how many Orioles fans live in NJ. I have been in the Hamilton area for nearly 6 years and I run into O's fans constantly up here - some transplants but a lot who adopted the team decades ago as they were mid way between NY and Philly and never really developed an allegiance to either.

[Frobby]

Yep, in the same way the Orioles "allowed" the Nationals to move to DC. By negotiating for money and television rights.

It is very different, because the MLB operating agreement expressly allows a team to block another team in the same league (AL or NL) from moving within 40 miles of its territory. There was no dispute at all that the Senators could have blocked the St. Louis Browns, another AL team, from moving to Baltimore, but they allowed it to happen. By contrast, the Orioles had no right at all to block the Montreal Expos, an NL team, from moving to DC. That's the way the MLB operating agreement works.

The theory that Angelos came up with was that he had bought the team on the understanding that the Orioles had TV rights over a broad swath of the mid-Atlantic, and wouldn't have paid what he did for the team if he knew that MLB would allow a team to come to DC and usurp some of the TV territory. That was a pretty weak argument, that nobody even tried when the Mets were put in New York (Yankee territory), the Angels were put in LA (Dodger territory), or the Kansas City Athletics moved to Oakland (Giants territory). In each of those cases, the "new" team in the territory was from the opposite league, and under the MLB operating agreement, the incumbent team had no legal right to object, and didn't.

Angelos' TV claim was very dubious, but he is known as a fierce litigator and it was understood that he might be able to delay the Expos move for a couple of years while the court case dragged on, and that there might be court proceedings that would force MLB to disclose business matters in public that they didn't want to see the light of day. So, they reached the MASN deal to make Angelos go away, even though MLB probably had the winning hand on the merit of Angelos' claim.