Orioles' Post-Mussina Wins Leaders

[Frobby]

It has been an awfully long time since this team had a pitcher who was consistently good for a long time. Mike Mussina won 147 games for us from 1991-2000. Here are the leaders who debuted after Mussina:

Erickson 79

Ponson 73

Lopez 60

Cabrera 48

Guthrie 48

Tillman 46

Bedard 40

Chen 35

J. Johnson 34

Gonzalez 30

That is fairly pathetic.

I'd like to think that Tillman can rise to the top of this list while he's still under team control, and that Gonzo can at least top Lopez (who interestingly, also was a Mexican League discovery). But shouldn't a team be able to produce a 100+ game winner once a decade or so? The Orioles have had 10 in their 60 year history, but nobody even close since Mussina.

And yes, I know, wins are a meaningless stat yada yada. But they are more meaningful when you are talking about a long period of time, as opposed to one season.

[Redskins Rick]

It has been an awfully long time since this team had a pitcher who was consistently good for a long time. Mike Mussina won 147 games for us from 1991-2000. Here are the leaders who debuted after Mussina:

Erickson 79

Ponson 73

Lopez 60

Cabrera 48

Guthrie 48

Tillman 46

Bedard 40

Chen 35

J. Johnson 34

Gonzalez 30

That is fairly pathetic.

I'd like to think that Tillman can rise to the top of this list while he's still under team control, and that Gonzo can at least top Lopez (who interestingly, also was a Mexican League discovery). But shouldn't a team be able to produce a 100+ game winner once a decade or so? The Orioles have had 10 in their 60 year history, but nobody even close since Mussina.

And yes, I know, wins are a meaningless stat yada yada. But they are more meaningful when you are talking about a long period of time, as opposed to one season.

Agreed.

Hard to show results on that list, when you are playing sorry baseball for those years between 2000 and 2012.

[Frobby]

Agreed.

Hard to show results on that list, when you are playing sorry baseball for those years between 2000 and 2012.

Of course, part of the sorry baseball was the sorry pitching.

[Redskins Rick]

Of course, part of the sorry baseball was the sorry pitching.

Not sure, all the ineptness should be placed on the pitchers.

[Frobby]

Not sure, all the ineptness should be placed on the pitchers.

Absolutely not. The last three years have really reminded me of how important good defense is. An average pitcher can look bad with bad defense behind him, or pretty good with excellent defense behind him. For the last three years (2.5), it's been the latter.

[OriolesMagic83]

I'm surprised that Tillman has already eclipsed Bedard. I guess the period that Bedard was effective was actually short. Is Cabrera, Daniel Cabrera or someone else?

I'm presuming by debut you mean Oriole debut, because I'm pretty sure Erickson was in the majors before Mussina.

[Redskins Rick]

I'm surprised that Tillman has already eclipsed Bedard. I guess the period that Bedard was effective was actually short. Is Cabrera, Daniel Cabrera or someone else?

I'm presuming by debut you mean Oriole debut, because I'm pretty sure Erickson was in the majors before Mussina.

Bedard was only in the majors for 4 years for the Orioles, last 2 was his breakout years, where he won 15-12 & 13-5 on a bad team.

[Palmoripken]

I'm surprised that Tillman has already eclipsed Bedard. I guess the period that Bedard was effective was actually short. Is Cabrera, Daniel Cabrera or someone else?

I'm presuming by debut you mean Oriole debut, because I'm pretty sure Erickson was in the majors before Mussina.

As Rick got at already, Bedard's peak was very short but I'll also add that Bedard didn't go deep into games. I remember many a time where Bedard was great but would be done before the 6th. Tillman OTOH goes deeper into games. And you'd be correct about Erickson's numbers since his O's debut being included in there. It does give you hope that three of our current five starters are on the list though which means we got some continuity going.

[Can_of_corn]

When you have a team that is:

1- Bad for an extended period of time

2- Risk adverse (won't sign pitchers to long term deals)

then this sort of thing happens.

[Frobby]

As Rick got at already, Bedard's peak was very short but I'll also add that Bedard didn't go deep into games. I remember many a time where Bedard was great but would be done before the 6th. Tillman OTOH goes deeper into games.

Bedard 2006: 5.95 IP/start

Bedard 2007: 6.50 IP/start

Tillman 2013: 6.25 IP/start

Tillman 2014: 6.10 IP/start

Bedard's 2007 was the best year of any Orioles' pitcher since Mussina, IMO. However, it got cut short in late August when he pulled his oblique. As it was, he threw 182 innings in only 28 starts. To that point he was on pace to throw about 220 innings.

[Catch 8]

When you have a team that is:

1- Bad for an extended period of time

2- Risk adverse (won't sign pitchers to long term deals)

then this sort of thing happens.

Add 3) directionless to the list.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Palmoripken]

Bedard 2006: 5.95 IP/start

Bedard 2007: 6.50 IP/start

Tillman 2013: 6.25 IP/start

Tillman 2014: 6.10 IP/start

Bedard's 2007 was the best year of any Orioles' pitcher since Mussina, IMO. However, it got cut short in late August when he pulled his oblique. As it was, he threw 182 innings in only 28 starts. To that point he was on pace to throw about 220 innings.

Ah I stand corrected then. I think Tillman gets better run support but that could be faulty memory.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frobby]

Ah I stand corrected then. I think Tillman gets better run support but that could be faulty memory.

The difference between Bedard and Tillman is that Bedard would be very honest and tell Perlozzo or Trembley when he was tired and wanted to be pulled from the game, whereas Tillman has to be dragged off the mound kicking and screaming. Even though Bedard threw more IP/start in 2007 than Tillman ever has, there were several games where he seemed to be breezing along and yet essentially pulled himself out of the game when he felt tired (and this was when our bullpen really sucked). I remember defending him a number of times when the majority of posters felt he was being selfish not to stay in the game. In truth, they had a point, to a certain extent.

[MrOrange82]

What? It's not like the O's are preventing young guys (in, say, their age 24 seasons), who might otherwise have a shot at reaching such milestones while under team control, from joining the rotation in favor grandfathering spots for moderately more experienced, but far less raw-talented (and occasionally overpaid) veterans.

Frobby, I envy the good will you've clearly accumulated, because when I suggest that the O's (lack of) pitching development is pretty embarrassing, I've found the observation...less well received.

Then again, I think the whole developmental system has been pretty embarrassing, with the pitchers painting only part of the picture.

[MrOrange82]

P.S. and Heaven forbid I make wins the foundation of my analysis...