FG: The Case For Manny Machado For MVP

[srock]

You might envision Machado, Davis, Mark Trumbo, and Adam Jones and think the Orioles offense is good. The team wRC+ is a decent 103, but without Machado, it?s an offense that is below average.

You might think of Machado and J.J. Hardy and think the Orioles defense must be good. It?s not. They?re 24th in defensive runs above average and would be much closer to the bottom without Machado.

Ouch. This fall in team defense is really hard to swallow. This should have been solved and given the pitching staff was a known negative.

[Can_of_corn]

Just going to add this piece to the thread.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/manny-machados-power-has-arrived/

[Pheasants]

I am actually surprised there is not a national groundswell to give it to Ortiz as a going away present. I didn't realize before this year how "beloved" he is by everyone in baseball.

[Beef Supreme]

Prediction: Donaldson

[BohKnowsBmore]

I think Altuve deserves it with Betts close behind. Earlier in the season it looked like David Ortiz was the one to beat. Now the guy who is entering the discussion with a fury is Brian Dozier.

I dunno, I think manny was easily the favorite early in the season. He won AL player of the month for April. Not mentioning him in the discussion sells his season way short, IMHO of course.

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[BohKnowsBmore]

Ouch. This fall in team defense is really hard to swallow. This should have been solved and given the pitching staff was a known negative.

Remember, defensive metrics, in the OF in particular, can be quite finniky.

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[Can_of_corn]

Remember, defensive metrics, in the OF in particular, can be quite finniky.

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I'll take the outfield metrics over 1B and Catcher.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'll take the outfield metrics over 1B and Catcher.

Fair. Responses via TT are naturally brief, so I apologize for how short my initial response was. I was sort of alluding to the source being the OF, with a notoriously rougher set of metrics than most of the IF. The quoted text mentioned Hardy specifically.

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[Can_of_corn]

Fair. Responses via TT are naturally brief, so I apologize for how short my initial response was. I was sort of alluding to the source being the OF, with a notoriously rougher set of metrics than most of the IF. The quoted text mentioned Hardy specifically.

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Do you think any of Jones, Kim, Rickard, Reimold and Trumbo are plus outfielders?

Do you think they are average for their positions?

[BohKnowsBmore]

Do you think any of Jones, Kim, Rickard, Reimold and Trumbo are plus outfielders?

Do you think they are average for their positions?

Id say Jones is, in my opinion. My overall point was that it has more to do with OF defense than infield defense (the quoted text mentioned Hardy specifically). On that, the DRS measurement for OF is a much blunter instrument, which is important when our ranking was mentioned.

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[Can_of_corn]

I think Jones has been below average, this season, in center.

Hopefully it is a one year blip.

[InsideCoroner]

Id say Jones is, in my opinion. My overall point was that it has more to do with OF defense than infield defense (the quoted text mentioned Hardy specifically). On that, the DRS measurement for OF is a much blunter instrument, which is important when our ranking was mentioned.

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I know the "eye test" is faulty, but I feel like this year Jones has been average at best. How did that line drive he dropped a few nights ago against the Rays not get ruled an error?

My feel this year is that the O's have been below average overall in the outfield, above average overall in the infield, and slightly below average overall at catcher. Not bad in total...but also not near to the defensive standards set in the past four years. I haven't checked the numbers but that's just my off-the-cuff feel from watching games.

[Frobby]

I know the "eye test" is faulty, but I feel like this year Jones has been average at best. How did that line drive he dropped a few nights ago against the Rays not get ruled an error?

My feel this year is that the O's have been below average overall in the outfield, above average overall in the infield, and slightly below average overall at catcher. Not bad in total...but also not near to the defensive standards set in the past four years. I haven't checked the numbers but that's just my off-the-cuff feel from watching games.

We weren't very good in the outfield last year, either. But we are worse this year.

[InsideCoroner]

We weren't very good in the outfield last year, either. But we are worse this year.

That's my overall feeling too. Last year Jones was a touch better (healthier?) and Snider, Lough, Pearce, Parra, de Aza, etc weren't exemplary but they weren't horrendous either with the glove. Trumbo is bad, even if he hits 50 homers. Kim, although perhaps the best pure "hitter" on the team, also doesn't inspire confidence with his glove. Rickard dove after numerous balls he shouldn't have (and missed almost all of them). Reimold looks Reim(older). It wasn't a particularly good year defensively for the outfield. And unfortunately I don't see the minor league defensive wizards who will inherit that terrain either. This could be a potential problem for us for some years to come.

[Tx Oriole]

I view the MVP is the best player in the league.

I don't think Trout should be penalized for his front office's inability to build a team around him.

No he shouldn't.