Putting hitters away

[Going Underground]

Seems like I heard this last year. Oriole pitchers don't put hitters away. They throw too many good pitches ahead of the count. New pitching coach and #1 catcher is gone but same problems. i have noticed that McDowell does not talk to the pitchers on the bench between innings like Wallace did. When I look in the dugout he does not go near the pitcher that much. Might be his style to leave the pitcher alone during the game. Just an observation.

“We’ve had that problem a lot here lately,” he said. “Look out there and it seems like every one of our starters are averaging 20 pitches per inning. And our relief pitchers, too. I don’t care if you’ve got 10 guys in your bullpen, that’s not a good recipe. We’ve got to do a little better job of taking advantage of the counts in our favor.”

 

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2017/05/wrapping-up-a-tough-weekend-for-the-orioles-at-kauffman-stadium.html

 

[Frobby]

With two strikes:

AL: .169/.247/.265

BAL: .199/.274/.300

[ChinMusic]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

With two strikes:

AL: .169/.247/.265

BAL: .199/.274/.300

This doesn't take into account how often a batter is able to foul off pitches and extend the AB. The issue isn't so much about how many hits we give up with two strikes, it's about the long, extended AB's in which the pitcher is wasting a ton of pitches and elevating his pitch count. Tillman seems to always be a big offender of this.

Our guys either need to develop a better strikeout pitch, or stop nibbling so much with 2 strikes. How often do we see 0-2 counts become 3-2 counts? Way too often in my opinion.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, ChinMusic said:

This doesn't take into account how often a batter is able to foul off pitches and extend the AB. The issue isn't so much about how many hits we give up with two strikes, it's about the long, extended AB's in which the pitcher is wasting a ton of pitches and elevating his pitch count. Tillman seems to always be a big offender of this.

Our guys either need to develop a better strikeout pitch, or stop nibbling so much with 2 strikes. How often do we see 0-2 counts become 3-2 counts? Way too often in my opinion.

I can't quantify all of this, but there's some evidence to support what you're saying.    We throw the most pitches per plate appearance of any team in the league (4.12).    We throw the lowest percentage of strikes (61.7%).     We have the second highest percentage of foul strikes (29.5%).    We allow the third highest contact percentage of any team in the league (78.8%).   It certainly is frustrating to watch at times.   

[ChinMusic]

Just now, Frobby said:

I can't quantify all of this, but there's some evidence to support what you're saying.    We throw the most pitches per plate appearance of any team in the league (4.12).    We throw the lowest percentage of strikes (61.7%).     We have the second highest percentage of foul strikes (29.5%).    We allow the third highest contact percentage of any team in the league (78.8%).   It certainly is frustrating to watch at times.   

Thanks for putting in the effort to quantify this with actual stats and evidence. It's nice to see black and white numbers that back up what I think I've been noticing myself.

It's certainly a huge frustration, but to me this is not an issue of coaching or the catcher behind the plate. This feels like it's been an ongoing issue dating back several years now, and while the coaches and catchers have changed, the issue still remains. I'm just not exactly sure how to correct it. Our pitchers simply need to pitch better once they get two strikes on a hitter. 

[bpilktree]

Our guys just don't have that great of stuff.  I watched the Astros game last night and they had Charlie Morton basically a guy anyone could have signed in the off season and he was throwing straight gas.  I don't know if it is true or not but I bet we have the slowest pitching rotation in baseball.  When you can't throw it by them it makes it hard unless you locate.  Gausman even this year seems like he has lost a few ticks.  I see lot more 93-95 then last year 95-97.  Tilman has no fastball right now.  Bundy is pitching good but the fastball is still just low 90s so we he doesn't have one of his other pitches it makes it easier to contact.  The Orioles don't seem like they will take gambles on a younger guy that has injury issues in the past but had good stuff.  I would much rather do that then spend money on guys like Gallardo and Ubaldo who have lost the fastball.  Morton got a bit more money then I would like seeing and is more in the Ubaldo field age wise but not a lot of innings on his arm compared to other guys.  Mike Minor who we just saw is another type guy that I would have liked to take a bit of chance on. 

[bpilktree]

I just looked at the stats and Guasmans numbers are almost identical in many categories compared to last year.  His line drive rate, His fly ball rate is up just a small tick  but his HR to fly ball rate is abetter this year and the k rate is down.  The fastball speed is the same but the one major difference I see is the slider is 3 mph faster then last year.  He has a higher soft contact rate  and also a higher hard contact rate but they average out about the same.  It maybe that he is thorwing his slider to hard and not getting enough separation but his stats show no real difference this year compared to last except ERA and his walk rate is almost double.

[panick]

Bedard had this same problem. Getting two quick strikes and then trying to get the hitter to swing at a pitch off the outside of the plate. Those are the pitches Adam Jones swings at when he has two strikes.

I can somewhat understand pitchers trying to get hitters to chase a pitch with two strikes, but the O's 0-2 pitches aren't close enough to make the hitters chase them. The hitters seem to know that 0-2 pitches are going to be well off the outside of the plate so they aren't even tempted to swing. The O's pitchers then try to get the hitters to chase those same pitches until the count gets to 3-2.

Maybe the pitchers ought to surprise some of the hitters by actually throwing strikes in 0-2 counts. Some hitters may be so shocked to see an 0-2 strike that they may just take the pitch. If they do swing and get a hit it probably won't affect the game results much since hitters are already batting .300 when they start with 0-2 counts. And even if they get base hits, at least the pitch counts won't be elevated so quickly. 

 

[Going Underground]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I can't quantify all of this, but there's some evidence to support what you're saying.    We throw the most pitches per plate appearance of any team in the league (4.12).    We throw the lowest percentage of strikes (61.7%).     We have the second highest percentage of foul strikes (29.5%).    We allow the third highest contact percentage of any team in the league (78.8%).   It certainly is frustrating to watch at times.   

Thanks Frobby. I am sure Buck has similar stats and that is why he made the comment. Does buck know how to fix this problem.? Many pitching coackes so I am sure they all don't have identical philosophies. I guess most of the Oriole pitchers have trouble locating and putting hitters away.