O's claim Travis Lakins, DFA Stevie Wilkerson

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I believe the quote was that he was “not average” at 1B.

To your point about the learning curve, the interesting thing is that Mancini hasn’t really gotten better in the OF over time.   He was -5 outs above average in 2017, -10 in 2018, -7 last year, with roughly the same amount of playing time each year.    I remember in the 2017-18 offseason, I argued strenuously that we should expect Mancini to do a little better defensively the next year now that he had some experience.    That proved to be wrong, much to my chagrin.    That’s why I think Mountcastle might quickly surpass him despite having less experience.    But of course, we’ll have to see.    

Edit: the scout quote was: “His defense at first was not average, so he’s really going to have to hit.”  https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2019/12/part-two-a-scouts-take-on-os-prospects.html

The next time Corn foams at the mouth at me for mentioning Mountcastle’s defense, I’m just going to link this.

”not average” at first base is really bad. Pedro Alvarez was “not average” at 1B. I think Danny Valencia wasn’t terrible at 1B but he wasn’t any great shakes either.

[Can_of_corn]

30 minutes ago, Philip said:

The next time Corn foams at the mouth at me for mentioning Mountcastle’s defense, I’m just going to link this.

”not average” at first base is really bad. Pedro Alvarez was “not average” at 1B. I think Danny Valencia wasn’t terrible at 1B but he wasn’t any great shakes either.

Heaven forbid we actually watch the kid play first.

Or have you watched him play first?

In a very small sample size the scouting reports are mixed.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Who was the other outfielder?  Phil Bradley?

Yes, and Orsulak.   

[atomic]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

The next time Corn foams at the mouth at me for mentioning Mountcastle’s defense, I’m just going to link this.

”not average” at first base is really bad. Pedro Alvarez was “not average” at 1B. I think Danny Valencia wasn’t terrible at 1B but he wasn’t any great shakes either.

I find it hard to believe that a guy that started well over 200 hundred games in the minors at Shortstop can't play an average first base. His knock on the left side of the infield was his arm. That shouldn't be a problem at first. 

[sportsfan8703]

7 hours ago, atomic said:

I find it hard to believe that a guy that started well over 200 hundred games in the minors at Shortstop can't play an average first base. His knock on the left side of the infield was his arm. That shouldn't be a problem at first. 

This is why holding Mountcastle down till June 1 isn’t the worst thing. Then he gets all of ST and some time in the milb, to work on his defense in LF. 

FWIW, I think Mancini is a little awkward throwing the ball around the IF while playing 1B. That could potentially be an issue for Mountcastle as well with his “weird arm” angle. 

Also OP related, the Marlins just DFA’d two players, which adds to the total of players in DFA limbo right now, making it look like Wilkerson and Kline will clear. Just my prediction. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This is why holding Mountcastle down till June 1 isn’t the worst thing. Then he gets all of ST and some time in the milb, to work on his defense in LF, RF, 1B,2B and 3B. 

FWIW, I think Mancini is a little awkward throwing the ball around the IF while playing 1B. That could potentially be an issue for Mountcastle as well with his “weird arm” angle. 

Also OP related, the Marlins just DFA’d two players, which adds to the total of players in DFA limbo right now, making it look like Wilkerson and Kline will clear. Just my prediction. 

Fixed that for you.

Why are you thinking June 1, you worried about Super 2 status?

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Fixed that for you.

Why are you thinking June 1, you worried about Super 2 status?

I guess June 1st. It could be just the three weeks to gain the extra year of control. We’ll have to see how this new regime handles things. I went with the conservative date. 

[jarman86]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s pretty fair to assume that Mountcastle is more athletic than Mancini.   If not, the O’s wouldn’t have left him on the left side of the infield for 3+ seasons.  

 

Two words show this means nothing: Jomar Reyes.  Last I checked he is still at 3B and painful to watch too.  Didn't he come up as a SS as well?

[HowAboutThat]

10 hours ago, atomic said:

I find it hard to believe that a guy that started well over 200 hundred games in the minors at Shortstop can't play an average first base. His knock on the left side of the infield was his arm. That shouldn't be a problem at first. 

I agree but I’m not the scout who made the comment.

[eddie83]

At the end of the day what is the harm in seeing Mountcastle play LF. For crying out loud this team started Steve Wilkerson in CF 58 games last year. What is the worst that can happen? 

He is 23 years old. If he can’t handle it then move him to 1B. 

We have no idea how good Díaz and Santander wind up being. He isn’t blocking anyone from getting a chance. 

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, eddie83 said:

At the end of the day what is the harm in seeing Mountcastle play LF. For crying out loud this team started Steve Wilkerson in CF 58 games last year. What is the worst that can happen? 

He is 23 years old. If he can’t handle it then move him to 1B. 

We have no idea how good Díaz and Santander wind up being. He isn’t blocking anyone from getting a chance. 

I think we can safely say that Santander's tools play well in LF/RF.  He's a pretty athletic dude.  He's no stiff. I think Diaz is regarded as a slightly better defender.  You can find highlights.  

Mountcastle might be more "athletic" than Mancini, but Mancini is a grinder, and Mancini is likely way ahead of Mountcastle when it comes to routes taken.  Ultimately I think none of this matters.  Mountcastle likely plays 1B/LF when he does come and Mancini is here.  If Mancini has the type of season he had last year, I think Mancini will be gone at the trade deadline.  So 1B will be Mountcastle's for the next 6.5 seasons.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by sportsfan8703

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think we can safely say that Santander's tools play well in LF/RF.  He's a pretty athletic dude.  He's no stiff. I think Diaz is regarded as a slightly better defender.  You can find highlights.  

Mountcastle might be more "athletic" than Mancini, but Mancini is a grinder, and Mancini is likely way ahead of Mountcastle when it comes to routes taken.  

So he's not a hero?

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

So he's not a hero?

I hate using the cliche, but I think Mancini is a grinder the same way that Steve Pearce was.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I hate using the cliche, but I think Mancini is a grinder the same way that Steve Pearce was.  

I'll take talent over "grinding".  Pearce has 9.7 rWAR over 13 seasons.  5.9 of that came in one year.

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'll take talent over "grinding".  Pearce has 9.7 rWAR over 13 seasons.  5.9 of that came in one year.

Mountcastle may have more offensive raw talent, but I think dude is uncoordinated.  Mancini looks a little awkward throwing the ball to second base, while he's playing 1st, but other that he's maxing out his potential.  Mountcastle's throwing motion in general, from any position, looks very awkward.  

In the long run, I don't think this matters because I think Mancini is gone at the deadline.