Jump to content

Roch talks about filling 1B

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Except he ended the season well, so your theory is shot.

End of the day, even in a down year for him, he was worth 2 WAR. He is a smart risk for the Orioles to take.

We need 4-5+ WAR from the position next year and beyond.

If you want to put somebody there that will be a 2.0-3.0 WAR player, just put Luke Scott there.

Lee likely won't be much of an improvement if any over Luke Scott.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 164
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

Posted
Posted
And I already posted this in another thread arguing against signing Lee, especially when you read this comment:

Wait. The actual article states the data is inconclusive (as of August 10th) regarding Lee's season, as his LD% is up, his BABIP is down across the board, but his HR/FB rate is also down. Inconclusive, says the author, as to whether or not there is real decline here from Lee.

But you quote the Cubs fan in the comments section that happens to agree with your stance on Lee's aging? We're now quoting opinions from comment sections?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

Posted
Posted
Wait. The actual article states the data is inconclusive (as of August 10th) regarding Lee's season, as his LD% is up, his BABIP is down across the board, but his HR/FB rate is also down. Inconclusive, says the author, as to whether or not there is real decline here from Lee.

But you quote the Cubs fan in the comments section that happens to agree with your stance on Lee's aging? We're now quoting opinions from comment sections?

Inexcusable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Wait. The actual article states the data is inconclusive (as of August 10th) regarding Lee's season, as his LD% is up, his BABIP is down across the board, but his HR/FB rate is also down. Inconclusive, says the author, as to whether or not there is real decline here from Lee.

But you quote the Cubs fan in the comments section that happens to agree with your stance on Lee's aging? We're now quoting opinions from comment sections?

When you are talking about somebody who's actually watched Lee perform in games, yes...

The guy says he's seen most of his ABs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oriolidae85 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Oriolidae85

Posted
Posted
I think trading for Fielder would be a horrible move, but I'm still not a fan of Lee, and I don't think the "premium bat" argument has been given enough credit. Looking around at the teams that made the playoffs this year, most have at least 1-2 players who are far, far superior to anything the Orioles have to throw out there. The Rays have Longoria and Crawford, the Yankees have...well, we all know who they have...and even if you want to point to the Giants as an example of a playoff team with a relative paucity of star power, you have to take the following into account: the Giants play in the NL West. The Orioles aren't going to make the playoffs out of the AL East with upgrades that are limited to the "35 year old D. Lee" range.

Completely agree with you...especially after reading this whole thread. But adding Lee should still be much better than what the Orioles currently have. Even if Lee floats in the .750 OPS range, which is likely, it would still be an improvement. I think Lee could have one more .900 OPS type season and a couple mediocre/average to slightly below average seasons. The premium bat is still lacking though, unless Lee rejuvenates or the Orioles add more sluggers. Or even better, one of Reimold/Wieters/Jones breakout in 2011.

There's still 5 years out of 7.

Cecil Fielder had an .834 OPS and hit 39 HR at age 32.

Mo Vaughn had an .864 OPS and hit 37 HR at age 32.

Prince had an .871 OPS this year (a drop off of .143) at age 26. Barring injury, this should be his low-end production, but he is a risk that the Orioles cannot afford. Just my opinion, but I would not give Fielder anything more than $100M. He's never faced consistent: excellent pitching/AL East pitching; AL pitchers; hits poorly in the post-season; and cannot field (even though it is in his name). He will most likely rebound for several more 1.+ OPS seasons, but he weighs more than Roberts & Izturis combined.

Luke Scott would have hit par with Fielder as our #4 1B this year (as an argument point). I do agree with you that Lee is not a "premium" bat, but he is better and most likely significantly better than the Orioles 2010 experimentation. Fielder is just not the answer. If the team is going to trade any future away, it should be with someone we can extend for less $ and loss of prospects. Dan Uggla is my vote, coupled with other additions.

We need 4-5+ WAR from the position next year and beyond.

If you want to put somebody there that will be a 2.0-3.0 WAR player, just put Luke Scott there.

Lee likely won't be much of an improvement if any over Luke Scott.

Fielder in 2010 had a WAR of 3.8. Adding Lee with Scott in the lineup already improves the club (even if Lee is down to average). The O's still would lack a true #4 hitter, unless Lee rebounds, which is a possibility. They should add two bats or more, whether it is Fielder/Lee or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

Posted
Posted
When you are talking about somebody who's actually watched Lee perform in games, yes...

The guy says he's seen most of his ABs.

That is just pathetic. Why do you automatically assume this guy is right? Why don't you assume that another guy who says Lee is still a great hitter is right? Same reason you assumed Austin wasn't messing with you the other day? Because it fits into your preconceived notion. Open your mind, man. You might actually learn something.:eektf:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

Posted
Posted
We need 4-5+ WAR from the position next year and beyond.

If you want to put somebody there that will be a 2.0-3.0 WAR player, just put Luke Scott there.

Lee likely won't be much of an improvement if any over Luke Scott.

Based on what? This?

Hmmmm that's the best team in the American League over 162 and their 1st baseman was a measly 1.0 WAR player. Not a good example I guess, right? Okay how about this?

Oh right, those losers just got swept by the MFY in the first round of the playoffs. How silly of me.

Okay let's try this. LOL!!!!! Look what I just did there, that's just goofy.

Hmmmmm... so who's left? Wow, I'm stymied because the Texas Rangers had a rag tag group of platoons at first base all year long. So the only example of a 4 WAR player was ya boy Tex, right?

OH SNAP!!!!!!!

Let's be moderately realistic, PLEASE?!?!?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
Based on what? This?

Hmmmm that's the best team in the American League over 162 and their 1st baseman was a measly 1.0 WAR player. Not a good example I guess, right? Okay how about this?

Oh right, those losers just got swept by the MFY in the first round of the playoffs. How silly of me.

Okay let's try this. LOL!!!!! Look what I just did there, that's just goofy.

Hmmmmm... so who's left? Wow, I'm stymied because the Texas Rangers had a rag tag group of platoons at first base all year long. So the only example of a 4 WAR player was ya boy Tex, right?

OH SNAP!!!!!!!

Let's be moderately realistic, PLEASE?!?!?!

Thank you. One of the beautiful things about baseball is that there are a million ways to build a good team. Anyone who thinks there's One True Way to complete only needs to look at a half a dozen actual records of actual teams to know they're wrong.

The Rays and the Yankees might be the single best example in baseball history of wildly divergent philosophies directly competing and coming to the same winning result. If you can't see that, your eyes are closed on purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

Posted
Posted
Wait. The actual article states the data is inconclusive (as of August 10th) regarding Lee's season, as his LD% is up, his BABIP is down across the board, but his HR/FB rate is also down. Inconclusive, says the author, as to whether or not there is real decline here from Lee.

But you quote the Cubs fan in the comments section that happens to agree with your stance on Lee's aging? We're now quoting opinions from comment sections?

:rofl: :slytf:

Just think...by this standard, some message board guy for some other team is also quoting JTrea in their arguments.

I think Trea just got pwned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...