Orioles are "going hard" after Zack Greinke

[DrOrioles90210]

I'm not going to do homework for you as I'm pretty busy, but they are all in that long thread about Thome. Krasnick, and others chimed in about things like "low ceiling" and bag of chips, or something of that nature if memory serves.

Krasnick? He's not a talent evaluator? He's a beat writer.

[Malike]

Krasnick? He's not a talent evaluator? He's a beat writer.

Here you go.

According to Keith Law, Lino and Simon's ceilings are "really, really low."

https://twitter.com/keithlaw/status/219206241199730688

Also, Kevin Goldstein on Lino: "New Philly C Garbriel Lino: 19 yo Venezuelan with plus defense potential and some raw power, but not sure he'll ever hit."

https://twitter.com/kevin_goldstein/...98911607345154

[DrOrioles90210]

I never claimed it was unanimous. I claimed that people who are paid to evaluate talent and report on it had stated we didn't lose anything major. Again, Lino was our top 10 prospect, in a good farm system he's quite likely nowhere near that.

And here are two article that disagree:

Fangraphs Article

Baseball Prospectus Article

If anyone thought that Lino was worth anything, then he shouldn't have been included in the deal. It's fine that there isn't a consensus on him, but Duquette should have been able to get Thome for Simon and another player without the upside that Lino has.

[Malike]

Krasnick? He's not a talent evaluator? He's a beat writer.

Again, I told you guys what thread it was in, if you had read it you would known what was said. I was trying to recall from memory, it was Law and Goldstein, happy?

[Flacco Machado]

Really? Who are those? Links, maybe?

Tony Pente, Keith Law

How do we wind up talking about Kyle Simon and Gabriel Lino over and over again? Wasn't this thread about Zach Greinke?

[weams]

.

Is there any possibility that we could get Greinke with a general agreement that he will stay here in 2013 and beyond, keep both Bundy and Machado, and perhaps give up a first-round draft choice in either 2013 or 2014 ???

The only trade-able draft picks are supplemental ones. I think. So there is that.

[DrOrioles90210]

Tony Pente, Keith Law

How do we wind up talking about Kyle Simon and Gabriel Lino over and over again? Wasn't this thread about Zach Greinke?

Some of us don't like what we think Duquette would give up for Greinke based on what he gave up for Thome.

[Why Not?]

Who says anything about emptying the farm system? You move Matusz/Arrieta, Schoop, and another lower level prospect for Greinke, a couple AAAA-potential prospects for Saunders, and that's emptying the farm?

I don't see how it would be getting hit by lightning twice for anything except the bullpen. They have been crazy good, but there are a lot of teams throughout the years who had a bullpen come out of nowhere to be terrific. Look up the 2005 White Sox as an example.

With players coming back from injury, and some hitters who could progress back to the mean in the 2nd half, I think this team could score a lot more in the 2nd half than they did in the 1st. The same goes for the pitching. With Greinke and Saunders, they could see a significant improvement there--at least enough to offset potential regression from the bullpen.

I'm not saying that 45-35 is a probability that I would bet Bundy and Machado for, but I think the probability is high enough to consider moving Matusz/Arrieta, and a couple other decent prospects.

Even losing the guys you mention is a big hit to our system.

But the most important argument against this trade is that Grienke isn't going to make this a playoff-caliber team. We will need BIG improvements from several players to become a realistic contender along with continuation of the surprising bullpen work. This team just isn't that good. It's still the worst team in the AL East.

[Can_of_corn]

Some of us don't like what we think Duquette would give up for Greinke based on what he gave up for Thome.

And Eveland, and Teagarden

[Malike]

And here are two article that disagree:

Fangraphs Article

Baseball Prospectus Article

If anyone thought that Lino was worth anything, then he shouldn't have been included in the deal. It's fine that there isn't a consensus on him, but Duquette should have been able to get Thome for Simon and another player without the upside that Lino has.

Of course I stated that it wasn't unanimous, but disregard that fact please. I simply said that people who get paid to evaluate talent are not freaking out about Lino, the way we are here. Oh, and the Fangraphs article was written about seeing him play in April, you know, when he was hitting. He's at a brisk .615 OPS on the season, since that torrid start.

[Lucky Jim]

Really? Who are those? Links, maybe?

Never mind. I saw Law's. The others I wouldn't describe as saying "nothing," but I have an overview.

[Lucky Jim]

Of course I stated that it wasn't unanimous, but disregard that fact please. I simply said that people who get paid to evaluate talent are not freaking out about Lino, the way we are here. Oh, and the Fangraphs article was written about seeing him play in April, you know, when he was hitting. He's at a brisk .615 OPS on the season, since that torrid start.

Yeah, he cratered with a sub-.400 OPS in May then bounced back a bit to .711 in June. So, .800/.400/.700. I wouldn't read too much into it. He's definitely got some holes.

[Hooded Viper]

Because the O's aren't a #1 pitcher away from being a legitimate contender.

So what? Who says a team has to be built entirely through the farm? If you can get him at what DD considers a reasonable cost AND extend him then that gives the team a boost this year and the future!

[DrOrioles90210]

Of course I stated that it wasn't unanimous, but disregard that fact please. I simply said that people who get paid to evaluate talent are not freaking out about Lino, the way we are here. Oh, and the Fangraphs article was written about seeing him play in April, you know, when he was hitting. He's at a brisk .615 OPS on the season, since that torrid start.

My point is that plenty of people don't see Lino as an insignificant prospect and Thome wasn't worth what was given up.

Talent evaluators don't necessarily need to see prospects have at-bats with positive results in order to see swing mechanics, body-type, athleticism, etc. that they can form an opinion with.

[Malike]

My point is that plenty of people don't see Lino as an insignificant prospect and Thome wasn't worth what was given up.

Talent evaluators don't necessarily need to see prospects have at-bats with positive results in order to see swing mechanics, body-type, athleticism, etc. that they can form an opinion with.

I don't disagree with this, and I wasn't happy about the trade, because I don't think Thome is a fit for this team. I am not going to lose sleep for losing Lino and Simon, but I'll scratch my head about the reasoning for acquiring Thome. I will just leave it at that.