Is Andrew Miller a must sign. I believe so. He can get both righties and lefties out and has filthy

[Nevermore]

Gausman has paid his dues in the bullpen... its time for him to be in the starting rotation for good now unless he plays his way out of it. If we need to move anyone to the bullpen, move Miggy there. He could be effective.

Why Miggy? After his prowess, especially during the 2nd half of the season, and during his game in the postseason, he is not the one who should start in the bullpen. As for who should start in the bullpen in 2015, this should probably be decided during spring training. See who isn't making it very well as a starter and also who would be effective in the bullpen (unless someone is so bad during ST that they would pitch mop up).

[AlbionHero]

Why Miggy? After his prowess, especially during the 2nd half of the season, and during his game in the postseason, he is not the one who should start in the bullpen. As for who should start in the bullpen in 2015, this should probably be decided during spring training. See who isn't making it very well as a starter and also who would be effective in the bullpen (unless someone is so bad during ST that they would pitch mop up).

Well, its more of a contract thing to me since he and Norris are pretty much even. If we put Norris in the bullpen, we'd be spending around 15 million on 3 relief pitchers... thats way too much. I'd rather let him earn his money as a starter since he'll be getting paid 6-7 million next year. If we just want him as a bullpen guy, why not just trade him and bring back Miller for a close price?

[AlbionHero]

Those 3 pitchers being Hunter, O'Day and Norris, that is.

Hunter will probably make around 4 million in arb, O'day had his 4.25 mil option picked up, and Norris likely sees 6.5-7 mil in arb. Miggy on the other hand will likely only get paid about 1.5 mil, making him a much more likely guy to be in the pen. Plus, it would keep down his arbitration costs in the future since he's going to be around longer with the team than Norris.

[Nevermore]

Those 3 pitchers being Hunter, O'Day and Norris, that is.

Hunter will probably make around 4 million in arb, O'day had his 4.25 mil option picked up, and Norris likely sees 6.5-7 mil in arb. Miggy on the other hand will likely only get paid about 1.5 mil, making him a much more likely guy to be in the pen. Plus, it would keep down his arbitration costs in the future since he's going to be around longer with the team than Norris.[/quote

Well, I must be old fashioned. I always thought that the best SPs should be in the rotation, not the highest-priced ones. Most winning teams want the best performers, not the most costly ones.Otherwise, they won't be winning teams much longer.

[AlbionHero]

Those 3 pitchers being Hunter, O'Day and Norris, that is.

Hunter will probably make around 4 million in arb, O'day had his 4.25 mil option picked up, and Norris likely sees 6.5-7 mil in arb. Miggy on the other hand will likely only get paid about 1.5 mil, making him a much more likely guy to be in the pen. Plus, it would keep down his arbitration costs in the future since he's going to be around longer with the team than Norris.[/quote

Well, I must be old fashioned. I always thought that the best SPs should be in the rotation, not the highest-priced ones. Most winning teams want the best performers, not the most costly ones.Otherwise, they won't be winning teams much longer.

Thats probably how it should be, but not how it is in reality. We know Ubaldo will be given another shot in the rotation next year, and its just because he's making 12 million dollars a year. If he was making 2 million, he'd likely be in the bullpen for good, or DFA'd.

[UpstateNYfan]

Those 3 pitchers being Hunter, O'Day and Norris, that is.

Hunter will probably make around 4 million in arb, O'day had his 4.25 mil option picked up, and Norris likely sees 6.5-7 mil in arb. Miggy on the other hand will likely only get paid about 1.5 mil, making him a much more likely guy to be in the pen. Plus, it would keep down his arbitration costs in the future since he's going to be around longer with the team than Norris.[/quote

Well, I must be old fashioned. I always thought that the best SPs should be in the rotation, not the highest-priced ones. Most winning teams want the best performers, not the most costly ones.Otherwise, they won't be winning teams much longer.

I think BS tends to lean in this direction. He (or DD) likes pitchers with MiL options left. If Miggy or another SP is to "demoted" to the bullpen, I think he is more likely to be traded than going to the pen.

[Nevermore]

Thats probably how it should be, but not how it is in reality. We know Ubaldo will be given another shot in the rotation next year, and its just because he's making 12 million dollars a year. If he was making 2 million, he'd likely be in the bullpen for good, or DFA'd.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the investment angle. But remember that Ubaldo got sent to the pen despite his big salary; he was a very expensive mop up man. A team cannot afford to send someone out there over and over who is constantly ineffective. Now Ubaldo showed some signs that he worked on his delivery during the time he was in the bullpen (most likely after that one disatrous relief outing where he walked in a run). So he was given spot starts along with another relief appearance; this included the divsion-winning game. His numbers got better and he got on the ALDS roster (though not the ALCS roster). So that would be a reason to give him another chance at starting, though not as the #1 guy, even though he's the most expensive. If Ubaldo had continued his wild. losing ways, Orioles would have found some way to get rid of him or as a last result, release him outright and eat up that huge salary (the way the As ended up releasing Jim Johnson, eating up his huge salary in the process).

It's a dilemma when a big/long contract starting pitcher winds up struggling mightily, so badly that he cannot stay in the rotation if the team wants to have any chance at winning. The Giants are now facing this with Tim Lincecum. Lincecum was signed with a huge contract and then the Giants found that, because of his rank ineffectiveness, they couldn't keep him in the rotation. So to the bullpen he went. The Giants have kept him on their postseason roster (I suppose at least partly because of the investment). So far, during the NLDS and NLCS, Bochy has left him out in the bullpen, without using him at all. Even during the 18 inning marathon against the Nats, Lincecum wasn't used. The game was tied -- what would have happened if Bochy had brought Lincecum in and Lincecum got shellacked, as he had been getting shellacked in his starting and relief appearances during the last half of the season? Bochy simply couldn't trust him, so he was the only Giants reliever not used that night. He hasn't been used since. Reportedly, Lincecum is on the WS roster, so this same scenario could very likely happen, with Lincecum spending the entire WS warming the bullpen bench because Bochy can't count on him to get batters out. And Bochy needs pitchers who can get batters out if he wants to have a chance at winning the WS.

In the meantime, the small-contract, previously-overlooked SPs like Miguel Gonzalez keep getting pushed back in the rotation or possibly sent to the bullpen even though they don't deserve it. Or even getting optioned to AAA (which happened to Gonzo this past season). I suppose that organizations want their big contract guys to work out and help the organization, but they can only go so far in arranging the rotation (or batting order for position players) according to salary rather than according to numbers, especially the most recent numbers. This is what a winning organization would do, put guys in according to their numbers rather than the size of their salaries.

[weams]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the investment angle. But remember that Ubaldo got sent to the pen despite his big salary; he was a very expensive mop up man. A team cannot afford to send someone out there over and over who is constantly ineffective. Now Ubaldo showed some signs that he worked on his delivery during the time he was in the bullpen (most likely after that one disatrous relief outing where he walked in a run). So he was given spot starts along with another relief appearance; this included the divsion-winning game. His numbers got better and he got on the ALDS roster (though not the ALCS roster). So that would be a reason to give him another chance at starting, though not as the #1 guy, even though he's the most expensive. If Ubaldo had continued his wild. losing ways, Orioles would have found some way to get rid of him or as a last result, release him outright and eat up that huge salary (the way the As ended up releasing Jim Johnson, eating up his huge salary in the process).

It's a dilemma when a big/long contract starting pitcher winds up struggling mightily, so badly that he cannot stay in the rotation if the team wants to have any chance at winning. The Giants are now facing this with Tim Lincecum. Lincecum was signed with a huge contract and then the Giants found that, because of his rank ineffectiveness, they couldn't keep him in the rotation. So to the bullpen he went. The Giants have kept him on their postseason roster (I suppose at least partly because of the investment). So far, during the NLDS and NLCS, Bochy has left him out in the bullpen, without using him at all. Even during the 18 inning marathon against the Nats, Lincecum wasn't used. The game was tied -- what would have happened if Bochy had brought Lincecum in and Lincecum got shellacked, as he had been getting shellacked in his starting and relief appearances during the last half of the season? Bochy simply couldn't trust him, so he was the only Giants reliever not used that night. He hasn't been used since. Reportedly, Lincecum is on the WS roster, so this same scenario could very likely happen, with Lincecum spending the entire WS warming the bullpen bench because Bochy can't count on him to get batters out. And Bochy needs pitchers who can get batters out if he wants to have a chance at winning the WS.

In the meantime, the small-contract, previously-overlooked SPs like Miguel Gonzalez keep getting pushed back in the rotation or possibly sent to the bullpen even though they don't deserve it. Or even getting optioned to AAA (which happened to Gonzo this past season). I suppose that organizations want their big contract guys to work out and help the organization, but they can only go so far in arranging the rotation (or batting order for position players) according to salary rather than according to numbers, especially the most recent numbers. This is what a winning organization would do, put guys in according to their numbers rather than the size of their salaries.

Ubaldo will start for the Orioles in each of the next three seasons. Until he has much worst years than this year. Then he'll get Gregg'd

[Can_of_corn]

Ubaldo will start for the Orioles in each of the next three seasons. Until he has much worst years than this year. Then he'll get Gregg'd

He might get traded at some point.

[Nevermore]

He might get traded at some point.

First, a truly dumb question: what does "-Gregg'ed" mean? Is this some reference to Gregg Olson?

Second: Perhaps it might not be realistic, but if Ubaldo improves his pitching enough so that he can start (and can stay in the rotation), he will hopefully help the Os to win, and then we won't want to trade him.

[Can_of_corn]

First, a truly dumb question: what does "-Gregg'ed" mean? Is this some reference to Gregg Olson?

Second: Perhaps it might not be realistic, but if Ubaldo improves his pitching enough so that he can start (and can stay in the rotation), he will hopefully help the Os to win, and then we won't want to trade him.

Kevin Gregg

Buck shoved him so far down the bench in 2012 that his leverage numbers went into the negative.

[Can_of_corn]

Miller wants( and easily could get) 10m a year for 3 years.He could close too.

Of course he can close. Almost any above average reliever can close.

[NCRaven]

Zach Britton only made our team because he was out of options. Came in 2nd place in the voting for relief pitcher of the year in the AL. I guess you really can find a closer almost anywhere.

Would love to keep Miller, but he'll be crazy expensive. But, consider, if they resign Markakis to a reasonable (not cheap, but reasonable) contract and offer arbitration to Davis, DeAza and Wieters. Every position on this team will be filled along with the rotation. The only position really left to spend money is the bullpen. Would it make sense, given that, to splurge on a dominant left-handed setup man / closer option.

[Redskins Rick]

Zach Britton only made our team because he was out of options. Came in 2nd place in the voting for relief pitcher of the year in the AL. I guess you really can find a closer almost anywhere.

Would love to keep Miller, but he'll be crazy expensive. But, consider, if they resign Markakis to a reasonable (not cheap, but reasonable) contract and offer arbitration to Davis, DeAza and Wieters. Every position on this team will be filled along with the rotation. The only position really left to spend money is the bullpen. Would it make sense, given that, to splurge on a dominant left-handed setup man / closer option.

To compare Britton from previous seasons and this year, is like comparing apples and oranges.

Britton came to ST healthy, with filthy stuff, it was clear even in ST that he was changed pitcher.

Hard to gamble on when pitchers are heading to the scrape heat and when they find a flaw or get healthy and become a stud.

[AlbionHero]

Zach Britton only made our team because he was out of options. Came in 2nd place in the voting for relief pitcher of the year in the AL. I guess you really can find a closer almost anywhere.

Guys like Britton show why its not smart for mid market teams to pay big bucks for relief pitchers. You can often just convert starters to relief pitchers and they'll work great at a fraction of the price. Hell, thats what Andrew Miller was.

I think we could put Miguel in the bullpen next year and get a shutdown reliever to replace Miller in the 7th inning.