Post latest rumors on the Roberts trade here...

[section18]

Roberts is one of the top 5 leadoff men in baseball. Fact! Some may say one of the top three. Hill won 11 games last year. He has a lot of potential and will probably win 13-15 games this year. Roberts plays everyday. Hill will pitch every 5 days. As they say...Roberts sets up everything for your 2-3-4 hitters when he is on base and threatening to steal. Fastballs, fastballs, fastballs......eveyone hits fastballs.

The Cubs have Zambrano, Lilly, Lieber, Gallagher and Marquis. They can afford to trade Hill if they want to be in the playoffs this year and maybe the World Series.

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Tejada?

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Bedard?

If the Cubs want Roberts they will give us quality and not quantity in this deal.

[skiba7]

Roberts is one of the top 5 leadoff men in baseball. Fact! Some may say one of the top three. Hill won 11 games last year. He has a lot of potential and will probably win 13-15 games this year. Roberts plays everyday. Hill will pitch every 5 days. As they say...Roberts sets up everything for your 2-3-4 hitters when he is on base and threatening to steal. Fastballs, fastballs, fastballs......eveyone hits fastballs.

The Cubs have Zambrano, Lilly, Lieber, Gallagher and Marquis. They can afford to trade Hill if they want to be in the playoffs this year and maybe the World Series.

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Tejada?

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Bedard?

If the Cubs want Roberts they will give us quality and not quantity in this deal.

Wow. Are you for real?

[Fairfax Bird]

There is a lot of evidence of this. First of all it took Scott until nearly 30 to make it. Secondly Scott has nearly every PA against righties. Murton on the other hand has more than 60% of his plate appearrances against righties.

Well, really the evidence is stacked against Murton. Murton actually has more ABs in MLB than Scott. In 663 ABs Scott has a .882 OPS. In 830 ABs Murton has an .820 OPS. Against lefties Scott has an .803 OPS and against righties he has an .898 OPS. Murton is .909 against lefties and a .771 OPS against righties.

Scott is the better hitter right now. Now, in three years that may change. But not right now.

[Rob H]

LOL. I couldn't wait to hear the reponses to that one. I agree with you Rob. Rich Hill is not being traded by the Cubs. If a trade is going to get done I see Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno, Patterson, Veal, Fontenot and Marshall as available pieces. I think AM wants Pie or Colvin to be made available as well. Personally, I don't trade with the Cubs without getting Murton and Gallagher. Murton is a ML hitter. Gallagher appears to be the real deal. Cedeno and Patterson are risky, but talented. I'd take those four in the position we're in.

If I'm the Cubs, that's a whole heckuva lot more than I should be giving up... but given Roberts marginal utility in this tight battle with the Brewers, I'd probably have to make the deal. It would kill me to lose Gallagher and Cedeno, though.

[Rob H]

Roberts is one of the top 5 leadoff men in baseball. Fact! Some may say one of the top three. Hill won 11 games last year. He has a lot of potential and will probably win 13-15 games this year. Roberts plays everyday. Hill will pitch every 5 days. As they say...Roberts sets up everything for your 2-3-4 hitters when he is on base and threatening to steal. Fastballs, fastballs, fastballs......eveyone hits fastballs.

The Cubs have Zambrano, Lilly, Lieber, Gallagher and Marquis. They can afford to trade Hill if they want to be in the playoffs this year and maybe the World Series.

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Tejada?

Did anyone expect us to get 5 players for Bedard?

If the Cubs want Roberts they will give us quality and not quantity in this deal.

You have to look beyond wins to recognize Hill's value. He received some of the worst run support in the bigs last year (bottom five of all qualified starters, IIRC). Considering his strikeout rate now and in the minors, combined with his new sense of control, and you'll find he's likely to be the Cubs ace this coming season... and he's under control for four more years compared to Roberts two.

Roberts is a damn good 2B, but he's no ace lefty. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM in the league who'd be willing to trade Hill straight up for Roberts, let alone include him as part of a package.

[clapdiddy]

You have to look beyond wins to recognize Hill's value. He received some of the worst run support in the bigs last year (bottom five of all qualified starters, IIRC). Considering his strikeout rate now and in the minors, combined with his new sense of control, and you'll find he's likely to be the Cubs ace this coming season... and he's under control for four more years compared to Roberts two.

Roberts is a damn good 2B, but he's no ace lefty. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM in the league who'd be willing to trade Hill straight up for Roberts, let alone include him as part of a package.

I'm as big of a Roberts fan as anyone, and I think he's a very good ballplayer, but we are certainly not getting back a guy the Cubs are counting on to make a run at the playoffs this year.

I think we'd have a better shot at Pie, but I don't think even that is possible.

[El Gordo]

Wow. Are you for real?

He keeps getting his section wrong. It should be section 8.

[theobird]

If I'm the Cubs, that's a whole heckuva lot more than I should be giving up... but given Roberts marginal utility in this tight battle with the Brewers, I'd probably have to make the deal. It would kill me to lose Gallagher and Cedeno, though.

Tell me why you feel that way about Cedeno. I live in the Midwest and get WGN, so I see a lot of Cubs games. Cedeno has never really impressed me too much, but he is a good athlete. I see him as a SS, not a 2b. If we did make the trade as we have talked about it, Cedeno and Patterson would compete with LH, Bynum and Fahey for SS and 2b. How do you think that would shake out? Do you think EPat can field enough to take the 2b job? Would Cedeno hit enough to be an upgrade over LH at SS? It concerns me that the O's may very well not improve their lot at either Mi positions here.

[rammyfanny]

You have to look beyond wins to recognize Hill's value. He received some of the worst run support in the bigs last year (bottom five of all qualified starters, IIRC). Considering his strikeout rate now and in the minors, combined with his new sense of control, and you'll find he's likely to be the Cubs ace this coming season... and he's under control for four more years compared to Roberts two.

Roberts is a damn good 2B, but he's no ace lefty. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM in the league who'd be willing to trade Hill straight up for Roberts, let alone include him as part of a package.

I'd be surprised if Hill wasn't in the bottom two of the entire MLB in run support last season.

[Rob H]

I'm as big of a Roberts fan as anyone, and I think he's a very good ballplayer, but we are certainly not getting back a guy the Cubs are counting on to make a run at the playoffs this year.

I think we'd have a better shot at Pie, but I don't think even that is possible.

Unless you see the Cubs acquire a real CF (i.e. not Marlon Byrd), I'm becoming more and more inclined to agree that Pie isn't gonna happen. There's been speculation that the Cubs are/were interested in both Coco Crisp and Chone Figgins. If you see one of those guys head to the Cubs, that's probably the sign that Roberts is gonna net you Pie. Otherwise, I'm just not seeing it at this point.

But yeah, Hill certainly isn't happening. Besides Hill having more market value in absolute terms, he also has much more value to the Cubs. DeRosa is a lot closer in value to Roberts than our load of fifth starters we found in the dumpster are to Hill.

[JTrea81]

Here's what I was told as of last evening:

For the most part the FO does not feel the Cubs are a great match a this time.

They like Gallagher alot and he will be included in any deal.

Any deal will most likely require Payton going to the Cubs.

Gallagher is really the only pitcher we would look to get for the Cubs. They Cubs are giving away Mutton and Cedeno for the most part. They would moist likely be included in any deal.

For the 4th piece we would be looking for a non 40 man roster player. Colvin is the guy we've wanted. After Reimold the minor league system is pretty weak concerning outfield prospects. We feel we already have over a dozen young pitchers in the system better than Veal who is projected to be a reliever by many.

No word on a 5th player.

Bottom line is if the Cubs would take a deal of Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, and Colvin for Roberts and Payton there is a chance of it happening.

My guys personal opinion is Roberts remains an O and we try to extend him.

Read into this as little or as much as you want.

I agree, I'm not sure the Cubs match up that well with us either. Colvin is very suspect as he has power, but he needs to have a lot more patience at the plate. Reimold is definitely the better prospect of the two.

Cleveland would be my best guess for Roberts, as they have yet to make a splash this offseason to offset the upgrades every other team in that division has made.

[Ruzious]

I think the Cubs do match up well - if Patterson and Cedeno are included with Gallagher and Colvin.

[Roll Tide]

Tell me why you feel that way about Cedeno. I live in the Midwest and get WGN, so I see a lot of Cubs games. Cedeno has never really impressed me too much, but he is a good athlete. I see him as a SS, not a 2b. If we did make the trade as we have talked about it, Cedeno and Patterson would compete with LH, Bynum and Fahey for SS and 2b. How do you think that would shake out? Do you think EPat can field enough to take the 2b job? Would Cedeno hit enough to be an upgrade over LH at SS? It concerns me that the O's may very well not improve their lot at either Mi positions here.

I'd be very surprised if there aren't two pitcher in this deal ... Gallagher & Veal (maybe some other non 40 man pitcher instead).

Murton would only makes sense as far as I'm concerned. Unless the O's were convinced they can fix Patterson's Defense, I highly doubt they'd take him over Cedeno.

Again I do the deal if its Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno & Marshall,Veal,Johnson

[nyjimbo]

Does Gallagher's dad come with him in a trade? Oh by the way Luis Hernandez's grandmother said he was crushing the ball off her in BP last week.

[Rob H]

Tell me why you feel that way about Cedeno. I live in the Midwest and get WGN, so I see a lot of Cubs games. Cedeno has never really impressed me too much, but he is a good athlete. I see him as a SS, not a 2b. If we did make the trade as we have talked about it, Cedeno and Patterson would compete with LH, Bynum and Fahey for SS and 2b. How do you think that would shake out? Do you think EPat can field enough to take the 2b job? Would Cedeno hit enough to be an upgrade over LH at SS? It concerns me that the O's may very well not improve their lot at either Mi positions here.

Cedeno has the tools to be a plus offensive and a plus-plus defensive SS. With him, it's entirely a question of maturity. Nowhere is that more apparent than watching him on defense... he didn't really boot anything, most of his errors were him trying to hurry to make impossible plays. He's just got to learn when to eat the ball. As for his offensive performance, well, everybody has seen the numbers that show what he can do when he isn't in Chicago. But rumor has it that he enjoys the nightlife in Chicago a bit too much... another simply maturity issue.

To me, Cedeno fits the exact mold of a player who will have an event happen in his life that will force him to suddenly just click on the maturity, and he'd become a completely different (and extremely valuable) player overnight. It may not happen at all, but if it does, I do not want to be watching it happen for another team while we're stuck with the abysmal Ryan Theriot.

As for EPatt, I'm about 50-50 on his defense. It could just be below average (but to the point where his bat far outweights his defensive issues, a la Todd Walker), or it could be bad enough to force him to the OF. With Jones in CF now, it's questionable whether or not EPatt's bat would allow him to stick in left, though it's certainly possible.

If the O's have any sense of what they're doing though, Cedeno and EPatt would be your starting SS and 2B, respectively. LH is a placeholder at best, and absolutely should never take away PA from somebody who actually has a ceiling as a useful player. Likewise for Bynum and Fahey at 2B. EPatt might not be any more valuable than them this season, but the O's darn well better check him out and see what they think of his defense.