Did Anyone Expect it to be THIS Bad?

[maybenxtyr]

12 hours ago, bpilktree67 said:

This roster is nowhere near as bad as the 1988 roster.   That team had Ripken an aging Murray and a over the hill Lynn and lot of cast aways.  This team has players that are in their prime or maybe slightly past it but still had great years just two or three years ago.

The 88 Orioles roster was 

Terry Kennedy and Mickey Tettlton.   Kennedy was a 33 year old catcher on his last legs and Fruit loops was comming of a year he hit .184 in Oakland.  This year we have Joseph and Sisco  who is a top 100 prospect manly for his bat.  He has struggled so far but still young and more regarded then Mickey was.

1st was Murrey who was still very good but was 33.  Davis although falling of the cliff has had great years not to long ago.

2nd was Ripken who hit .209 with two homers and never had much of a bat.  Schoop is and was an emerging star and just last year many on here were saying he was better or equal to Manny.

SS was Cal in his prime but was still not the player Manny is.

3B was Rick Schu who hit .235 the year before with 6 homers and a AAAA player and never a real prospect of player.   Beckham although never reaching his promise was still very highly regarded as a young player.

LF was Sheets who had the big 87 and many hoped he would keep that going but seemed to be a one year wonder.  He didn’t do much any other year before or after  throughout his career.  Mancini is similar had that big year last year as a rookie and hope was that would continue.  So far he has struggled but still had as much hype as Sheets coming into each season.

OF Fred Lynn was a very good player but was 36 that season and on his way out.  Adam Jones although getting older for center was still 32 and a better player at this time then Lynn was in 88.

Rf Joe Orsulak did not even player in majors in 87 and hit .220 with 2 homers in 86.  This year they had Rasmus but the though was Hays would be here by now and was a top 25 prospect in the game comming into the year,. 

Dh was 38 year old Jim Dwyer who had less home runs in his career then Trumbull had in one year going into the season.

The rotation was Boddicker Morgan, Ballard, Tibbs, and Bautista.  Nowhere near the rotation of Cobb, Bundy, Gausman, Cashner and Tilman comming into each season.  

The Cal and Manny comparison is hilarious. You may want to check with the stats before you say Cal isn't nearly the player Manny is.

[glenn__davis]

6 hours ago, hoosiers said:

I am not sure how folks who saw the last two months of last season expected much better than 65-70 wins.  

I really don't care much about the difference between being a worst three team at 65 wins and the worst team at 45 wins.

Still, it is difficult to fathom the combined mediocrity of Schoop, Hays, Davis, and many others all at the same time.

We are in rebuilding mode and I am excited for that to move along and see how it goes. 

I think it was easy to sell and buy the narrative that the #1 issue with the team last year was obviously starting pitching, and that the Orioles addressed that concern by adding 2 guys in Cashner and Cobb who, even if they weren't top of the rotation guys, would at least be better than the Tillman/Miley/Jimenez trifecta.  I didn't think the team would be great, but I figured they were around a .500 team that could possibly make September interesting if everything went right.  I think most Vegas sites had the over/under around 75 wins if I recall correctly.

Instead, pretty much everything has gone wrong, and here we are.

[CanadianOriole]

The Marlins had a huge fire sale and have been predictably terrible, worst team in the NL  - and we're 11.5 games behind them and not even at the All Star Break yet. That's pretty amazing.

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, MagicBird said:

Because no manager is bad enough to be responsible for a mess like this.  And Buck has a track record of getting more out of the team up until last year when the collapse begun.   No way you can put this all on Buck.

It’s not all Buck’s fault, but he should have been replaced by now in an effort to shake the team up.   They’re moribund.

[MagicBird]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It’s not all Buck’s fault, but he should have been replaced by now in an effort to shake the team up.   They’re moribund.

Too late for that now.    I dont think it matters who the manager is the rest of the way unless the team has a clear direction and already know who the next manager will be.  And we know w/o the GM situation taken care of first it shouldnt happen that way.

[MMussina35]

Nope. Got here via dysfunctional setup that allowed field manager to be your lead talent evaluator (something he completely sucks at) to have waaaaay to much say on player personnel. 

[LA2]

13 minutes ago, CanadianOriole said:

The Marlins had a huge fire sale and have been predictably terrible, worst team in the NL  - and we're 11.5 games behind them and not even at the All Star Break yet. That's pretty amazing.

The Marlins would be a lot worse if they were in the AL East. The O's actually didn't look that bad against the Mets and Braves.

[LA2]

5 minutes ago, MagicBird said:

Too late for that now.    I dont think it matters who the manager is the rest of the way unless the team has a clear direction and already know who the next manager will be.  And we know w/o the GM situation taken care of first it shouldnt happen that way.

Corollary is that no good managerial candidates will emerge until well after the dust in the FO settles.

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, maybenxtyr said:

The Cal and Manny comparison is hilarious. You may want to check with the stats before you say Cal isn't nearly the player Manny is.

He needs to. 

[CanadianOriole]

26 minutes ago, LA2 said:

The Marlins would be a lot worse if they were in the AL East. The O's actually didn't look that bad against the Mets and Braves.

Probably - but we're 6-11 in inter-league play, Marlins are 5-5. It's far from a guarantee that we're as good as or better than the Marlins.

[jtschrei]

I'm a broken record. Sorry. Why do we want to replace Buck and shake things up? Why do we want to win 60 games? We should trade our vets, bring up the young guys, and let Buck finish the season. Embrace the bad record. It's over at this point. 

[UpstateNYfan]

Many of the learned here thought Manny would do well at SS. Many of the learned here thought the addition of Cobb and Cashner would make the O's a WC contender. This team just imploded and was beyond anything anyone could do. I personally think Cobb in particular was a huge mistake...if a player doesn't sign by Feb 1, I'd say adios...DD waiting for such guys to fill his pitching staff and other holes is a passive, losing approach. I almost wish, the O's would keep the roster at 24 and pull some good amateur up each home game (like the Blackhawks did in the NHL playoffs) it would be more entertaining than the 9 we put out now. This team is unwatchable and not even doing things to make it look like they are planning for the future. 

[scbalt52]

I would've been less surprised if we were the best team in the league.

[DJHJR86]

I thought we would be competing for the 2nd wild card.  Boy was I wrong.

[eddie83]

Perfect storm happened. 

Off season decisions

-Switching Manny and Beckham positions. Flop. Not much more to say.

-Rasmus. Club did not want to invest into a big deal to fill RF which made sense. They also needed someone to fill the spot that could be steady. Instead he gets hurt 10 days in and eventually retires. Exposes Santander.

-Lack of utility INF. Both Schoop and Beckham get hurt and really no one adaquate to replace them. 

-Tillman. Going into season thinking he could actually pitch. Flop.

- 3, Rule 5 players on Opening Day roster. 

Underperformance

-Cobb

-Schoop

-Davis

-Beckham 

-Mancini

-Brach 

- Givens 

Even if you weren’t high on some of these guys it is hard to imagine this group, none of which are really past their prime- except Davis- being this bad. Even Davis being this awful.

Circumstances/Dysfunction

-I am grouping these two here. GM and Manager last year of deals. Best player last year of deal, team leader last year of deal. Owners sons taking on more of a role. No one knows who is in charge. 

We basically have everything coming to a head at once. Owner is older, health issues and sons taking on more of a role. The players themselves knew this was their last run. The season gets away early and everyone is just waiting around for something to happen. 

Injuries/Schedule 

Britton

Trumbo 

Schoop

Beckham 

O’Day 

Early on the schedule was rough and the team just wasn’t playing well. They were out of contention by mid April.  

Summary 

Pretty much everything has gone wrong. The schedule is what it is. If you are playing well you can manage it. The club has had some injuries but nothing other teams don’t deal with. 

I think things are so bad because an already flawed roster has had massive underperformance and the circumstances surrounding the team. They knew this was their last shot. It’s would be like a business where  the employees are told they will still have jobs but some of them will be transferred. I find it hard to believe it would be this bad if the circumstances were different. What a mess.