Speculating on how the O's handle the pitching logjam

[EddeeEddee]

Even if Baumann, Ramirez and a couple of the others are mediocre or below-average, it doesn't mean they are that easily replaced at this point in the season.  What if Bradish and Wells still aren't healthy enough or get hurt again?  Or what if Means and Perez pitch worse than Ramirez?  All of this may seem extreme but it's definitely possible.

This is why it's difficult to part ways with the likes of Baumann or Ramirez.  If they leave there is no backfill that is easily filled, at least not until the team is ready to tryout Povich or McDermott as relievers.

[foxfield]

6 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Yes that is an extreme exaggeration. I’m glad that you admitted to it. lol

On a more serious/factual note, what I said is that I am hopeful that we can cobble together an effective rotation and pen until the deadline. And then use pieces from our abundance of position player talent/prospects to add meaningfully where necessary.

But when you use words like “logjam” that implies too much or more than what is required. We don’t have that in terms of pitching talent on the team or in the organization at this time. That is not an exaggeration but a fact.

I didn't use the word logjam, it was in the OP.  That said, while the jam may well be at the back of the rotation, the fact that giving Bradish and Means a whirl to see where they are forces some moves.  IF either one of them is not what we need, then anything that is DFA'd can't come back and that would be an issue.  

Yes we still want more and better pitching, but without the ability to simply option guys and find out, it creates a log jam to determine what is best moving forward and it creates risks if either Bradish or Means are not serviceable somewhere.

[Billy F-Face3]

1 hour ago, EddeeEddee said:

Even if Baumann, Ramirez and a couple of the others are mediocre or below-average, it doesn't mean they are that easily replaced at this point in the season.  What if Bradish and Wells still aren't healthy enough or get hurt again?  Or what if Means and Perez pitch worse than Ramirez?  All of this may seem extreme but it's definitely possible.

This is why it's difficult to part ways with the likes of Baumann or Ramirez.  If they leave there is no backfill that is easily filled, at least not until the team is ready to tryout Povich or McDermott as relievers.

I'll give you Baumann in your point. But Ramirez has hit a batter in every one of his outings and the amouny of wild pitches are intolerable. 

I see no reason to worry about the departures of Ramirez or Heasley. Even Nick Vespi is capable of better. 

[EddeeEddee]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I'll give you Baumann in your point. But Ramirez has hit a batter in every one of his outings and the amouny of wild pitches are intolerable. 

I see no reason to worry about the departures of Ramirez or Heasley. Even Nick Vespi is capable of better. 

Yeah agreed, but it's not like our bullpen in general is full of shutdown guys.  Look at Kimbrel tonight -- worse than anything we've seen from Ramirez or anyone in the bullpen.  Not saying Ramirez should not be the next guy to go, but I just feel like in this bullpen you're going to get some off nights from more than one guy here and there.

[Philip]

Mike hates dumping assets, however meagre.

But Povich should be here, at the very least. Why not Vespi? He’s doing very well, with a 1.05 whip in 10 innings. And he’s on the 40-man. Bring him up and dump Ramirez. He cannot possibly be worse.

[Philip]

Yankees lose!

[HuskerFan]

Sounds like Means & Bradish will be with the club this next week following the A's series. 

[RZNJ]

8 hours ago, HuskerFan said:

Sounds like Means & Bradish will be with the club this next week following the A's series. 

Makes sense.

Bradish next turn would be Wednesday and assuming Means gets one more start for Norfolk on Sunday, his next turn would be Friday.   

[btdart20]

I'm not sure how they'll handle the end of the NYY series.  A single game might be a pure matchup and trend line question that could bump Irvin ahead of Bradish (I haven't looked but based on other posts...).

After that, Burnes/Grayson/Bradish is our top 3.  Then Kremer is a solid #4.

Maybe the use their positional flexibility thing for the #5 spot and play the matchup deciding between LHP Irvin and RHP Suarez?  It just would take a little planning ahead to know which is available out of the pen over a few days ahead of the next scheduled start.

Ramirez is a voted off the island.

Means gets squeezed a bit at this point.  He hasn't shown enough to be ahead of Irvin or Suarez this year.  Each start in AAA carries a lot of weight though.

They will play the controllable arms gam with those who have options for a little while.  Baumann, Webb and Akin have to post up from here on.  This is the group when Perez and Wells are back.  I'm not sure what Akin is doing but I wonder if it's sustainable.

Assuming health and expectations:  Kimbrel, Cano, Coloumbe, Tate, Suarez/Irvin, (Perez, Wells).  

Which leaves one spot to be upgraded...  I'd love to get a guy ahead of Cano (market depending). But the Cano/Coloumbe tier is my floor.

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, btdart20 said:

After that, Burnes/Grayson/Bradish is our top 3.  Then Kremer is a solid #4.

Maybe the use their positional flexibility thing for the #5 spot and play the matchup deciding between LHP Irvin and RHP Suarez?  It just would take a little planning ahead to know which is available out of the pen over a few days ahead of the next scheduled start.

Wells and Means mix in too.

Some of growing from Rays-ian to Dodgers-ian, as I hope we are in terms of the talent the big league Club can deploy, is the talent pile being so big you have good pitchers just chilling with flimsy IL stints.    I'm probably over-anchoring how happy Wells looked that one night in the dugout soon after he went on the IL.

The staff structure is maybe like 4-4-5 if by mid-May Hyde has access to all the Arms he'd have hoped to over the offseason, augmented by Orioles PD pulling a Suarez out of the hat.

First 4 - Burnes-Grayson-Bradish-Kremer

Next 4 - Irvin-Suarez-Means-Wells

1-inning - Kimbrel, Cano, Coulombe, Akin, Cionel

All the SP injuries around the league, I half wonder if early in trading season Elias might be able to leverage something in that Next 4 group to a wildcard contender for something more helpful.     Red Sox, Guardians, Astros some AL squads with some questions who will be covering innings this summer.

[RZNJ]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:41 PM, EddeeEddee said:

Even if Baumann, Ramirez and a couple of the others are mediocre or below-average, it doesn't mean they are that easily replaced at this point in the season.  What if Bradish and Wells still aren't healthy enough or get hurt again?  Or what if Means and Perez pitch worse than Ramirez?  All of this may seem extreme but it's definitely possible.

This is why it's difficult to part ways with the likes of Baumann or Ramirez.  If they leave there is no backfill that is easily filled, at least not until the team is ready to tryout Povich or McDermott as relievers.

Someone’s gotta go.   Ramirez is a definite.  There are Yohan Ramirez types on waivers each week.  That’s how we got him.

[LGOrioles]

3 hours ago, btdart20 said:

I'm not sure how they'll handle the end of the NYY series.  A single game might be a pure matchup and trend line question that could bump Irvin ahead of Bradish (I haven't looked but based on other posts...).

After that, Burnes/Grayson/Bradish is our top 3.  Then Kremer is a solid #4.

Maybe the use their positional flexibility thing for the #5 spot and play the matchup deciding between LHP Irvin and RHP Suarez?  It just would take a little planning ahead to know which is available out of the pen over a few days ahead of the next scheduled start.

Ramirez is a voted off the island.

Means gets squeezed a bit at this point.  He hasn't shown enough to be ahead of Irvin or Suarez this year.  Each start in AAA carries a lot of weight though.

They will play the controllable arms gam with those who have options for a little while.  Baumann, Webb and Akin have to post up from here on.  This is the group when Perez and Wells are back.  I'm not sure what Akin is doing but I wonder if it's sustainable.

Assuming health and expectations:  Kimbrel, Cano, Coloumbe, Tate, Suarez/Irvin, (Perez, Wells).  

Which leaves one spot to be upgraded...  I'd love to get a guy ahead of Cano (market depending). But the Cano/Coloumbe tier is my floor.

There’s a 0% chance Akin should get sent down if he keeps pitching the way he is. Tate is easily optioned before him at this point based off performance and maybe more importantly how Hyde has used them. Akin is probably his 4th most trusted reliever right now. I doubt he wants to lose him. Could that change? Absolutely. But right now it’s hard to see them sending him down - and they absolutely shouldn’t based on how he’s pitched. 
 

Right now there seems to be a clear bottom 3 in terms of who is trusted and that’s Ramirez, Baumann, and Tate. Those should be the first guys jettisoned for Irvin, Suarez, and Perez. It’ll get interesting when Wells is ready, but I think right now you have to keep Irvin and Suarez on the roster in case something happens with Bradish or Means (assuming they give him a rotation spot). 

Edited April 28 by LGOrioles

[EddeeEddee]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Someone’s gotta go.   Ramirez is a definite.  There are Yohan Ramirez types on waivers each week.  That’s how we got him.

Sure, I agree about Ramirez.  It's the juggling of the others that becomes more difficult if two or more of Bradish, Means, Perez and Wells struggle or get hurt again.  Not to mention Kimbrel who was terrible last time out.  

[btdart20]

56 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

There’s a 0% chance Akin should get sent down if he keeps pitching the way he is. Tate is easily optioned before him at this point based off performance and maybe more importantly how Hyde has used them. Akin is probably his 4th most trusted reliever right now. I doubt he wants to lose him. Could that change? Absolutely. But right now it’s hard to see them sending him down - and they absolutely shouldn’t based on how he’s pitched. 
 

Right now there seems to be a clear bottom 3 in terms of who is trusted and that’s Ramirez, Baumann, and Tate. Those should be the first guys jettisoned for Irvin, Suarez, and Perez. It’ll get interesting when Wells is ready, but I think right now you have to keep Irvin and Suarez on the roster in case something happens with Bradish or Means (assuming they give him a rotation spot). 

That's fair.  Tate and Akin are in similar tiers for me.  Tate has been a little "unlucky" where Akin has been a little "lucky".  

@Just Regular - It’s nice to have talent for sure.  The IL usage will be interesting to watch.  Wells can be lumped in with the SP/RP flex role.  But we haven't seen Means in an RP role.  If history is a guide, that's a tiebreaker and pushes the rest of that group to the BP regardless of matchup.  Does the math change for matchups?  Will we see that many longmen in the pen?  Fine for eating IP during the season, but for the playoffs?

[wildcard]

Means ready.   6 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 7K at Norfolk.

Edited April 28 by wildcard