Curious Case of Mike Scott

[BRobinsonfan]

Dwight Gooden's recent appearance in the news reminded me of Mike Scott - another fireball throwing pitcher from the 80's.

Scott began his major league career at the age of 24 in 1979. Over his first 6 years he posted rather pedestrian numbers. In 663 innings during that time period he pitched to a 4.45 ERA a 1.42 WHIP and averaged just 4.2 SO/9 and 10 H/9

In what I would liken to the equivalent of Brady Anderson's 50 HR season - in 1985 at the age of 31 - an age when many pitchers begin their decline - Scott wracked up a 2.22 ERA and KO'd 306 batters (a 10 SO/9 avg) in 275 innings with a ridiculous WHIP of 0.923. His previous high in strike outs - posted the year before - was only 137. A difference of 169 KO's from one season to the next while only pitching 54 more innings.

From 1986 to 1989 he had a 2.85 ERA in 970 innings pitched with a WHIP of 1.019 and a SO/9 of 8.4.

I guess my question is (Drungo are you there?) how often does a pitcher with a pretty well established track record of mediocrity do a complete 180 for the better like Mike Scott seemed to do? If he were a hitter you'd think steroids - but the era and the position would seem to be wrong to have that as a cause.

Thoughts?

[weams]

Dwight Gooden's recent appearance in the news reminded me of Mike Scott - another fireball throwing pitcher from the 80's.

Scott began his major league career at the age of 24 in 1979. Over his first 6 years he posted rather pedestrian numbers. In 663 innings during that time period he pitched to a 4.45 ERA a 1.42 WHIP and averaged just 4.2 SO/9 and 10 H/9

In what I would liken to the equivalent of Brady Anderson's 50 HR season - in 1985 at the age of 31 - an age when many pitchers begin their decline - Scott wracked up a 2.22 ERA and KO'd 306 batters (a 10 SO/9 avg) in 275 innings with a ridiculous WHIP of 0.923. His previous high in strike outs - posted the year before - was only 137. A difference of 169 KO's from one season to the next while only pitching 54 more innings.

From 1986 to 1989 he had a 2.85 ERA in 970 innings pitched with a WHIP of 1.019 and a SO/9 of 8.4.

I guess my question is (Drungo are you there?) how often does a pitcher with a pretty well established track record of mediocrity do a complete 180 for the better like Mike Scott seemed to do? If he were a hitter you'd think steroids - but the era and the position would seem to be wrong to have that as a cause.

Thoughts?

1. Steve Stone. 2. Pilates

Or maybe he sold his soul. I am certain that Dwight did.

[O-The-Memories]

There were a LOT of rumblings at the time that Scott was scuffing the ball.

I think the reason given at the time by the Astros was that he learned a new cutter or splitter. However, if you read a lot of the press at the time, Mike Scott was cheating somehow without getting caught. The reason I know a little about this is because one of my uncles was a HUGE Mike Scott fan.

My uncle thought he was the second coming of Bob Gibson, and for good reason.He had a couple of ridiculous seasons before injuries derailed his career....similar to Doc Gooden as the last poster had mentioned, just without the massive blow problem.

[lovetoaster]

There were a LOT of rumblings at the time that Scott was scuffing the ball.

I think the reason given at the time by the Astros was that he learned a new cutter or splitter. However, if you read a lot of the press at the time, Mike Scott was cheating somehow without getting caught. The reason I know a little about this is because one of my uncles was a HUGE Mike Scott fan.

Yep. These are the two generally accepted theories. He did start using a splitter, which was filthy. And there were a lot of rumors about him doctoring the ball, although nothing was ever proven. He was always a talented pitcher, but things really came together for those few years.

[DrungoHazewood]

As a couple others already mentioned, it was widely discussed that he'd picked up either a splitter or a scuff ball. As far as I know he was never caught scuffing, and hasn't admitted it.

It's not unprecedented for a journeyman pitcher to go all crazy on the league at an advanced age. Dazzy Vance had ZERO major league wins at 30, but was the most dominant pitcher of the 1920s in his 30s after a freak injury/emergency operation on his arm.

Wasn't Chris Carpenter released by the Jays before he became a Cy Young candidate?

[Tony-OH]

1. Steve Stone. 2. Pilates

Or maybe he sold his soul. I am certain that Dwight did.

1st guy I thought of as well. Stone was amazing in 1980 and was the only reason Scott McGregor never won a Cy Young award.

[TGO]

As a couple others already mentioned, it was widely discussed that he'd picked up either a splitter or a scuff ball. As far as I know he was never caught scuffing, and hasn't admitted it.

It's not unprecedented for a journeyman pitcher to go all crazy on the league at an advanced age. Dazzy Vance had ZERO major league wins at 30, but was the most dominant pitcher of the 1920s in his 30s after a freak injury/emergency operation on his arm.

Wasn't Chris Carpenter released by the Jays before he became a Cy Young candidate?

I don't recall if Carpenter was released or was just a free agent, but he put up 870 innings of almost exactly average results for the Jays. 99 ERA+, 49 wins, 50 losses. Getting hurt and missing 2003 was the best thing that ever happened to him.

He now has 860 innings with the Cards. 132 ERA+, 68-24.

[BRobinsonfan]

1st guy I thought of as well. Stone was amazing in 1980 and was the only reason Scott McGregor never won a Cy Young award.

Stone was truly amazing in the won-loss column - but his peripherals from 1971 - 1979 really weren't that much different from his monster year in 1980. To wit:

Pre - 1980: WHIP 1.36 SO/9 5.4 BB/9 3.6 H/9 8.7 HR/9 0.9

1980 Season WHIP 1.29 SO/9 5.3 BB/9 3.6 H/9 8.0 HR/9 0.8

[BRobinsonfan]

Neat article quoting Scott in "The Astros Daily"

RK: One big controversy that arose during the 1986 season and followed you for the rest of your career were accusations that you doctored the ball in order to pitch more effectively. The Mets handed over dozens of supposedly "scuffed" baseballs to the league commissioner during the 1986 playoffs to no effect. Don Sutton stated later that some pitchers on the staff scuffed balls while he was in Houston, but this was before you joined the team. Did you ever doctor the ball? Did anyone else on the staff? Or were you letting the imaginations of the opposing team get the best of them?

MS: I let the imaginations of the opponents' get the best of them.

RK: How did you feel about Roger Craig's criticism that you scuffed the ball, even though he taught you to throw the split-finger?

MS: Craig's players were complaining, so he did what a manager should do when his players are complaining-- he had the umpire check.

And his commentary on Roger Craig teaching him to throw the spit-finger.

RK: After a 5-11 season in 1984, you worked with Roger Craig in the off-season on a split-finger fastball. Who arranged this meeting and how much time did you spend with Craig?

MS: Al Rosen, the General Manager arranged the meeting, I spent a week in San Diego with Roger Craig for about an hour a day.

RK: With the new pitch, you won 18 games in 1985 and became the ace of the staff. At what point during the season did you realize that the pitch was going to be effective for you?

MS: The first time I threw the pitch was in spring training and I was amazed at how successful the pitch could be.

http://www.astrosdaily.com/players/interviews/Scott_Mike.html

[DrungoHazewood]

1st guy I thought of as well. Stone was amazing in 1980 and was the only reason Scott McGregor never won a Cy Young award.

The only reason? In 1980 McGregor was 12th in the league in ERA+, 11th in ERA, 7th in innings, 11th in complete games, 5th in wins, 3rd in winning percentage, and 18th in strikeouts.

This may be blasphemy 'round these here parts, but I think Mike Norris was the best pitcher in the AL in 1980.

And outside of 1980 McGregor really doesn't have a case. Boddicker was better in '83.

[Skeletor]

1986 was a great year in the postseason. The Mets/Astros series was incredible even though it went only 6 games. Scott was awesome. And the BOS/Angels series was great, too. Dave Henderson with that home run in game 6 off Donnie Moore. We all know how the World Series went.

[Riggodrill44]

There were a LOT of rumblings at the time that Scott was scuffing the ball.

I think the reason given at the time by the Astros was that he learned a new cutter or splitter. However, if you read a lot of the press at the time, Mike Scott was cheating somehow without getting caught. The reason I know a little about this is because one of my uncles was a HUGE Mike Scott fan.

My uncle thought he was the second coming of Bob Gibson, and for good reason.He had a couple of ridiculous seasons before injuries derailed his career....similar to Doc Gooden as the last poster had mentioned, just without the massive blow problem.

He flat out cheated.I saw about 10 balls from one of his game and all had the same scuff in the same place.Nothing special about Scott at all.

[DrungoHazewood]

He flat out cheated.I saw about 10 balls from one of his game and all had the same scuff in the same place.Nothing special about Scott at all.

If it was that obvious why did he never get caught? You're basically saying the umps were in on it.

[Bill388]

Curt Schilling?

[Cactus Jack]

In his first 8 years Esteban Loaiza went through 3 teams and was 69-73. He signed a minor league contract with the White Sox prior to 2003. They taught him a cutter and he went 21-9 and led the AL in strikeouts in '03. That was his one great year from out of nowhere. He showed up the next spring out of shape with a "big time" attitude. The White Sox shipped him to New York at midseason 2004 for Jose Contreras. Then they straightened out Contreras to the point where by the end of '05 he was the ace of a World Series winning pitching staff.