Peter Angelos makes a clubhouse appearance

[TradeAngelos]

I am just as frustrated as the next guy about the Orioles not entering into the "premiere" free agent bidding, but as I and others have said numerous times, for every big name free agent who has been worth his new contract, I can name 10 that weren't. Spending big on free agents is not the way to build a team, and I'm actually surprised that after seeing what Tampa and Oakland and now Baltimore have done, that people would still be upset about this.

Never said free agents were the way to build a team (they aren't, unless you are the Yankess with an unlimited payroll), but you can sure up glaring holes with them here and there to supplement the roster. And I am not talking about $200 million mega free agents, I am referring to ANY free agents of significance. Don't think that is too much to ask. We all know a $150 million plus player here is not happening, and that is not what I am complaining about.

[hoosiers]

I've made as many negative comments about Angelos as anyone. But, watching that video of him in the locker room, I can't help but feel good for him. He really looked like he took alot of pride in the players, and was genuine in his happiness for them. PA has done a lot of questionable things, but maybe the 2012 season is the start of something really good. Maybe it's time to let go of the negativity from the past, and just let bygones be bygones.

Side note: I don't want to call anyone out, but the comment about Angelos showing up in just depends, was really poor taste. Like I said, i've questioned Angelos a lot, but to go there wasn't right. I think that comment struck a nerve, because thats basically what my dad was reduced to on his death bed. Just poor taste.

Agree with this. I like that PA is our owner - always have. He is a Bmorean through and through and I am sure he wants to win a WS as much as anyone here. I remain hopeful he can be a positive difference-maker as an owner.

As more MASN information is made public, however, it is becoming increasingly apparent that PA is reaping massive rewards. I understand that there is risk to overpaying premier FAs, but a big time FA mistake or two appears to be something this franchise can afford without hurting the current product.

[Tony-OH]

Agree with this. I like that PA is our owner - always have. He is a Bmorean through and through and I am sure he wants to win a WS as much as anyone here. I remain hopeful he can be a positive difference-maker as an owner.

As more MASN information is made public, however, it is becoming increasingly apparent that PA is reaping massive rewards. I understand that there is risk to overpaying premier FAs, but a big time FA mistake or two appears to be something this franchise can afford without hurting the current product.

To each is own, but that's such an odd statement considering all the facts that have been put out, especially the long pieces I put out about Angelos' involvement in the past. I agree that he has taken more of a back seat since he hired MacPhail and that's a good thing, but he clearly has been part of the problem within this organization for years. One winning season is not going to blot out 14 losing seasons and is not going to remove the wasted years due to mismanagement, a lack of accountability, years of a lack of direction, and an organization that was fraught with cliques and paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong person upset. I'm elated that things are better now and I'm elated that he's taken steps to remove himself from the baseball operations, but let's not suddenly act like it was all blown out of proportion just because things are great now.

Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette get the most credit for building the current organization, but let's remember, there are still guys employed by this organization only because they are connected to Angelos. when I see them relieved of their duties, I'll know that things are fully heading in the right direction.

[hoosiers]

To each is own, but that's such an odd statement considering all the facts that have been put out, especially the long pieces I put out about Angelos' involvement in the past. I agree that he has taken more of a back seat since he hired MacPhail and that's a good thing, but he clearly has been part of the problem within this organization for years. One winning season is not going to blot out 14 losing seasons and is not going to remove the wasted years due to mismanagement, a lack of accountability, years of a lack of direction, and an organization that was fraught with cliques and paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong person upset. I'm elated that things are better now and I'm elated that he's taken steps to remove himself from the baseball operations, but let's not suddenly act like it was all blown out of proportion just because things are great now.

Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette get the most credit for building the current organization, but let's remember, there are still guys employed by this organization only because they are connected to Angelos. when I see them relieved of their duties, I'll know that things are fully heading in the right direction.

I understand all of the above. I understand for many, myself included, this awesome season does not come close to making up for the prior 14. I understand the many, many years of ineptitude and mismanagement.

I have always assumed at some point the broken organization would be fixed and that our owner would be able to use his powers for good. Admittedly, I thought these corrections would take place sooner.

[UMDTerrapins]

To each is own, but that's such an odd statement considering all the facts that have been put out, especially the long pieces I put out about Angelos' involvement in the past. I agree that he has taken more of a back seat since he hired MacPhail and that's a good thing, but he clearly has been part of the problem within this organization for years. One winning season is not going to blot out 14 losing seasons and is not going to remove the wasted years due to mismanagement, a lack of accountability, years of a lack of direction, and an organization that was fraught with cliques and paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong person upset. I'm elated that things are better now and I'm elated that he's taken steps to remove himself from the baseball operations, but let's not suddenly act like it was all blown out of proportion just because things are great now.

Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette get the most credit for building the current organization, but let's remember, there are still guys employed by this organization only because they are connected to Angelos. when I see them relieved of their duties, I'll know that things are fully heading in the right direction.

Thank you for this!

Someone asked recently who the Orioles GM was. I answered Dan Duquette, but that he's not called a "GM" as other teams would. Which of course brought out the question.....why? My answer was that our jackass owner can't do anything conventionally, and that we're winning in spite of him, not because of him...but please don't get me started because I'm happy right now. They complied.

For years we were led to believe that the O's would spend again once our rebuilding process had us closer to contention. Let's not forget that at the trade deadline such an opportunity had finally presented itself. We acquired:

Jim Thome (pro-rated 1 year/$1.2 million from 7/1/12 thru end of season)

Nate McLouth (pro-rated MLB minimum from 8/4/12 thru end of season)

Steve Pearce (pro-rated MLB minimum from 9/29/12 thru end of season)

Omar Quintanilla (cash plus pro-rated MLB minimum from 7/20/12 thru end of season)

Randy Wolf (pro-rated MLB minimum from 8/31/12 thru end of season)

Joe Saunders (pro-rated 1 year/$6 million from 8/26/12 thru end of season)

Again, give credit to Duquette for finding useful additions at such a value. But these guys were not pursued by other teams. While one trade deadline on its own is not enough to indict Angelos for not opening up the wallet for a winner (perhaps the right trades just weren't there), I have no expectation that this team will spend this winter. I give credit to the non-ownership segment of the Orioles organization for helping conceal the guy who is signing the checks. Winning is a great tonic. But I haven't lost an ounce of disdain for Angelos this season. Well, maybe an ounce.....that ain't much.

[Dipper9]

I know everyone is free to have an opinion on whatever subject they want, so please allow me to express mine.

The Baltimore Orioles, the team that we all say we love, is tied 1-1 in the ALDS against our most heated opponents, and yet people still choose to spew hatred for the owner. Well in my opinion, those people will never be happy, will always be able to find fault with something, and probably generally are very hard to please.

[tennOsfan]

I'm glad Angelos made this appearance in the clubhouse. If I was a player, it'd make a positive impression on me that the big guy is paying attention.

[Can_of_corn]

I am just as frustrated as the next guy about the Orioles not entering into the "premiere" free agent bidding, but as I and others have said numerous times, for every big name free agent who has been worth his new contract, I can name 10 that weren't. Spending big on free agents is not the way to build a team, and I'm actually surprised that after seeing what Tampa and Oakland and now Baltimore have done, that people would still be upset about this.

True, but there is no excuse for the O's not to have greatly increased spending in areas such as the draft, player development and international talent.

They didn't take advantage of the opportunity when it was present and now such spending has been capped.

[TradeAngelos]

I know everyone is free to have an opinion on whatever subject they want, so please allow me to express mine.

The Baltimore Orioles, the team that we all say we love, is tied 1-1 in the ALDS against our most heated opponents, and yet people still choose to spew hatred for the owner. Well in my opinion, those people will never be happy, will always be able to find fault with something, and probably generally are very hard to please.

Nope, we are just calling the sky blue.

Sorry.

Maybe if they had the success of another local team, who wins almost every year with impeccable ownership, you would have a point. But they aren't.

[DrungoHazewood]

I know everyone is free to have an opinion on whatever subject they want, so please allow me to express mine.

The Baltimore Orioles, the team that we all say we love, is tied 1-1 in the ALDS against our most heated opponents, and yet people still choose to spew hatred for the owner. Well in my opinion, those people will never be happy, will always be able to find fault with something, and probably generally are very hard to please.

I see how this stuff might be on the back burner until the offseason. But the fact is part of the reason this season is so incredible is that the franchise, under Peter Angelos, had become a laughingstock along the lines of the Indians in Major League. A season like this can really only happen on a team with a long track record of absurdly bad management and ownership. The A's season isn't quite what the O's has been, and that's mainly because their owner(s) aren't seen as a malevolent force.

[UMDTerrapins]

I know everyone is free to have an opinion on whatever subject they want, so please allow me to express mine.

The Baltimore Orioles, the team that we all say we love, is tied 1-1 in the ALDS against our most heated opponents, and yet people still choose to spew hatred for the owner. Well in my opinion, those people will never be happy, will always be able to find fault with something, and probably generally are very hard to please.

I call it seeing the full picture, and it hasn't diminished my absolute giddiness with our success this year. Since I just posted on the subject, I'm taking your post personally, and I'm really nothing at all like your characterization. This is my favorite season ever as an Oriole fan. That doesn't excuse the 14 seasons that preceded it. And it's not purely sour grapes from the past, because Angelos is still the owner. I want this story to keep going and this team keep pushing on through the postseason. And I want us to be great next year and beyond. How Angelos and MASN factor into that future is huge. It's only fair to give credit to Angelos for hiring Buck and Duquette (though the GM hunt was a successful end result to a massive fail of a search), those guys really deserve a TON of credit for succeeding with less. Not because the owner stepped up and gave them more resources. I'm open to re-evaluation, and perhaps Angelos is finally letting the pros run the organization. I still have legitimate concerns about our payroll constraints going forward, and concern about the questionable allocation of MASN profits. I'm not a negative guy and I'm not looking to bash anyone in the middle of the postseason. But I saw Tony's post and I am 100% behind him and was compelled to add my two cents. This season does not let Angelos off the hook. Oriole fans have roared back to life thank to the tireless efforts of this group. We can't let this be one joyously flukish season. Angelos is a huge part of where we go from here. I hope he's learned from the past, and I don't think it's an indictment of my character to be wary, even in the best of times.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Thank you for this!

Someone asked recently who the Orioles GM was. I answered Dan Duquette, but that he's not called a "GM" as other teams would. Which of course brought out the question.....why? My answer was that our jackass owner can't do anything conventionally, and that we're winning in spite of him, not because of him...but please don't get me started because I'm happy right now. They complied.

For years we were led to believe that the O's would spend again once our rebuilding process had us closer to contention. Let's not forget that at the trade deadline such an opportunity had finally presented itself. We acquired:

Jim Thome (pro-rated 1 year/$1.2 million from 7/1/12 thru end of season)

Nate McLouth (pro-rated MLB minimum from 8/4/12 thru end of season)

Steve Pearce (pro-rated MLB minimum from 9/29/12 thru end of season)

Omar Quintanilla (cash plus pro-rated MLB minimum from 7/20/12 thru end of season)

Randy Wolf (pro-rated MLB minimum from 8/31/12 thru end of season)

Joe Saunders (pro-rated 1 year/$6 million from 8/26/12 thru end of season)

Again, give credit to Duquette for finding useful additions at such a value. But these guys were not pursued by other teams. While one trade deadline on its own is not enough to indict Angelos for not opening up the wallet for a winner (perhaps the right trades just weren't there), I have no expectation that this team will spend this winter. I give credit to the non-ownership segment of the Orioles organization for helping conceal the guy who is signing the checks. Winning is a great tonic. But I haven't lost an ounce of disdain for Angelos this season. Well, maybe an ounce.....that ain't much.

Would you rather our approach been more like the Dodgers at the break?

I can't believe people are still on the "premium" talent thing... not spending money, blah, blah, blah. You know what premium talent really is? It's the players you already have on the roster. Granted, the roster had sucked for a good 10yrs before things started to look up, and I'm sure PA had a lot to do with that, but going forward, as long as he isn't preventing us from maintaining the talent we already have, that will go a long way to some partial forgiveness from me. I could care less if we ever sign another "top tier" FA. As long as the farm is producing talent and we're able to execute trades.

This team seems to be set up for some long term success. Where PA allows it to go from here is likely the final chapter written about his tenure as owner of the Orioles. I think he'll be leaving us on a high note.

[Tony-OH]

I know everyone is free to have an opinion on whatever subject they want, so please allow me to express mine.

The Baltimore Orioles, the team that we all say we love, is tied 1-1 in the ALDS against our most heated opponents, and yet people still choose to spew hatred for the owner. Well in my opinion, those people will never be happy, will always be able to find fault with something, and probably generally are very hard to please.

Dip, there are plenty of threads to talk about plenty of things going on with the organization. If you want to live in happy land where the owner is suddenly your best friend and we're all supposed to suddenly forget about the last 14 years, go right ahead. But any thread that talks about Angelos is going to have multiple opinions and telling people to not talk about him negatively because we're doing great this year doesn't make a lot of sense. You know better than anyone that this is a discussion boards and there are a lot of other threads to talk about other things if this one brings you down. Besides, I think the conversation has been very civil.

[TradeAngelos]

Would you rather our approach been more like the Dodgers at the break?

I love how people want to use these ridiculous comparisons that have no basis in reality. Did anyone claim we wanted them to go out and acquire $250 million of bad contracts at the deadline? No. He just pointed out that every single move we made was done pretty much as cheaply as possible.

I can't believe people are still on the "premium" talent thing... not spending money, blah, blah, blah. You know what premium talent really is? It's the players you already have on the roster.

Really? Name all the teams that have won on homegrown talent alone with zero free agents of any significance. It is going to be a short list. "Premium talent" can't exclusively come from within, because no one is perfect and prospects don't always work out. It is called "premium talent" for a reason, because it is established and gives you a better chance to win over "inferior talent" that our bargain basement owner loves so much.

Granted, the roster had sucked for a good 10yrs before things started to look up, and I'm sure PA had a lot to do with that, but going forward, as long as he isn't preventing us from maintaining the talent we already have, that will go a long way to some partial forgiveness from me. I could care less if we ever sign another "top tier" FA. As long as the farm is producing talent and we're able to execute trades.

Yeah let's just gloss over that 10 year period.

I will spell it out one more time, no one (at least not me) is saying we need to sign "mega" "top tier" "ridiculously expensive" whatever you want to call them free agents. Just sign SOMEONE. ANYONE that could help the club....now. Not in 2014, or 2015....maybe. The "well we aren't ready to compete" excuse is gone. Out the door. Invalid. That was the big hold up right??

Take a look at what the roster looks like down the road in a couple years and tell me we have everything we need in the system. We don't, not even close. We aren't playing in the NL Central here, where we would be on almost an even playing field at $90 million.

This team seems to be set up for some long term success. Where PA allows it to go from here is likely the final chapter written about his tenure as owner of the Orioles. I think he'll be leaving us on a high note.

It does appear to be set up for long term success...IF the owner allows the GM to make this team better in ANY way he sees fit, including signing or trading for guys who aren't playing for the vet minimum during this offseason or the next. And allocating more resources for development and the draft.

I love the core of this team going forward, but there are still holes and question marks all over the place looking ahead. One big step this offseason would be trying to be a little PRO-active and getting something done with Wieters to get ahead of the curve and send another message things are changing. We pretty much know what he is at this point, so it shouldn't be that hard to determine his relative value.

[Frobby]

Thank you for this!

Someone asked recently who the Orioles GM was. I answered Dan Duquette, but that he's not called a "GM" as other teams would. Which of course brought out the question.....why? My answer was that our jackass owner can't do anything conventionally, and that we're winning in spite of him, not because of him...but please don't get me started because I'm happy right now. They complied.

Without getting into the other stuff in your post, much of which I agree with, Duquette is not the only de facto GM who does not have the title of GM. For example, Andrew Friedman of the Rays has the exact same title Duquette does -- Executive Vice President for Baseball Operations. So to me, this is not a good example of Angelos being uncoventional.