Aaron Hicks (Update: Signed by the Orioles to replace Mullins)

[glenn__davis]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You should acknowledge that is speculation not fact.

Absolutely.  Certainly that would seem to be the logical move but recent history doesn't promote it.

I wouldn't have a problem with the Hicks signing at all IF I truly thought they would just jettison him once Cowser is ready.  But I don't believe that will be the case.  I expect him to be on the roster for the rest of the year.   It's what this team does.

[Bemorewins]

21 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

OK, both you and Eddie read what I wrote as if I had a sense of urgency, that's not my point at all. I don't give a crap about Hicks vs Cameron or Diaz vs O'Hearn. I'm trying to figure out ME's "process". Why pickup and rehabilitate guys like Diaz and Cameron, both only age 26 with some MLB experience, if you aren't going to use them when a need arises? They want a backup 1B, have tried Santander, O'Hearn and others. They lack an OF and have used Frazier, Vavra, O'Hearn in COF spots. Why use misfit guys in places they have no experience when you have experienced guys for those positions in AAA and playing well? Mullins goes down they pickup Hicks, fine, but they were already talking to Hicks before Mullins went down, why? Is ME constantly trying to find rehab projects? To what end? Does ME want a juggernaut in AAA with productive vets showing the prospects how professionals prepare, kinda Crash for Nuke? I doubt Diaz and Cameron are thought of as prospects higher than Westburg, Ortiz, Cowser, and Kjerstad so are they trade bait if you are unwilling to promote them?  I can't see the logic of Hyde playing Vavra and the vets out of position when you are trying to win while you have viable players at AAA. 

You pose some very interesting questions regarding how Elias' handling of fringe level vets vs top level prospects. I believe you could be correct in that he intends to move some prospects at the deadline. But it could also be that he does not want to feature multiple prospects attempting to break in at one time. In his last public comments the other day, he made a reference to expecting most prospects to struggle initially to acclimate to the Majors, when he was asked by Grayson. I can't fault him for holding that view, as it appears to be largely fact, not only with our prospects but also across the spectrum with many top prospects throughout the game. 

In the modern game, there appears to be a major jump in competition when going from AAA to the Big Leagues which takes guys a while to adjust to. With all of the data points that he has going back the last few years with this regard it might explain why he doesn't want to bring another prospect up while Gunnar has been trying to figure things out. Though I believe Cowser would have probably been an option to call up after the Mullins' injury, if he was healthy. If you listen carefully to what he said regarding Hicks it seemed to be more of expressing interest to the add as a depth signing aka AAA. It only became a Major League thing apparently after Mullins went down, making it more appealing to the player/agent.

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, eddie83 said:

If you think there is a better player available then what you have, you add them to your roster. 
 

You have 40 man roster concerns. The at bats at the big leagues for some of the players you have mentioned are limited. You don’t want someone is a top prospect playing sparingly at the big league level. The players at AAA are still potential options and you are trying to get thru 162 games. 

Does Kole Calhoun fit the bill over Vavra?  He just opted out…

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/06/kole-calhoun-yankees-opt-out-free-agent.html

[LA2]

One thing people here sometimes overlook is the fact that a successful season will usually have crucial contributions from mid-season acquired veterans that have no long-term role to play, may even be released or demoted before the end of the season. Very often they are players in decline that have just gone through several miserable seasons and may even be on the verge of retiring.

For the 2012 Orioles, there were Nate McLouth and Omar Quintanilla, for example. After being acquired from the Mets mid-July, Omar provided fine IF defense while hitting an often timely .293/.351/.416 (.786 OPS) over 70+ PAs before a painful 0 for 29 to close out the season. McLouth's case is particularly reminiscent of Hicks: after peaking in 2008 with a Cedric Mullins-like All-Star, Gold Glove 125 OPS+ season for the Astros, from 2010-2012 he had OPS+'s of 69, 87, and 9 [sic] before coming to the O's in early June. Anyone who followed the O's that season will certainly remember the spark and stability he provided at the top of the lineup (207 PAs batting lead-off or third).

It would be great if we get something remotely similar from Hicks--and if we don't, we'll know well ahead of the August trade deadline.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:32 AM, deward said:

The Parra trade was bad, but Jonah Heim? He was traded twice more after the O's traded him and didn't show any indication that he might be able to hit in the big leagues until his age 27 season (last year, six years after the initial trade). Good on Heim for (maybe) figuring something out, but that's not one you lose any sleep over.

Yes, it was 6 years before he became any good.  How would the O's kept him for 6 more years?  Sometimes guys who just look like organizational guys breakthrough somehow and make it as regulars in the majors.  It happens with every team.  Not something to overanalyze.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Yes, it was 6 years before he became any good.  How would the O's kept him for 6 more years?  Sometimes guys who just look like organizational guys breakthrough somehow and make it as regulars in the majors.  It happens with every team.  Not something to overanalyze.

You don't need to over analyze  to come to the conclusion that trades for players like Pearce (in that season) and Parra are not going to suddenly take a team with remote chances of making noise in the playoffs and turning them into a real contender.

[glenn__davis]

28 minutes ago, LA2 said:

 

For the 2012 Orioles, there were Nate McLouth and Omar Quintanilla, for example. .

Wow.  I consider myself an Orioles fanatic that has followed the Orioles closely since the late 80's and the minor leagues closely since joining this board.  I have absolutely zero recollection of Omar Quintanilla being on the 2012 Orioles, a season where I was hanging on every game during that playoff hunt.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, glenn__davis said:

Wow.  I consider myself an Orioles fanatic that has followed the Orioles closely since the late 80's and the minor leagues closely since joining this board.  I have absolutely zero recollection of Omar Quintanilla being on the 2012 Orioles, a season where I was hanging on every game during that playoff hunt.

If you google him a picture of him playing for Baltimore shows up.

He put up a -.3 rWAR, so I'm unsure how important his contribution was.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't need to over analyze  to come to the conclusion that trades for players like Pearce (in that season) and Parra are not going to suddenly take a team with remote chances of making noise in the playoffs and turning them into a real contender.

Heim looked like a spare part.  The O's were too cheap to sign anyone in the offseason so were forced to make trades at the deadline.  Sometimes these spare parts become good players.  If it's right away, like Cano, something is wrong with your organizational analysis of players.  I'm not saying that the O's analysis was good back then, but 6 years to make it as a mlb regular is a huge period of time. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Heim looked like a spare part.  The O's were too cheap to sign anyone in the offseason so were forced to make trades at the deadline.  Sometimes these spare parts become good players.  If it's right away, like Cano, something is wrong with your organizational analysis of players.  I'm not saying that the O's analysis was good back then, but 6 years to make it as a mlb regular is a huge period of time. 

I'm not even looking at it from the side of what the players they gave up did.

It don't like the process.    Parra was ripe for regression and his defensive numbers were down.  Pearce was a move to placate the manager (imo).

[LA2]

24 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Wow.  I consider myself an Orioles fanatic that has followed the Orioles closely since the late 80's and the minor leagues closely since joining this board.  I have absolutely zero recollection of Omar Quintanilla being on the 2012 Orioles, a season where I was hanging on every game during that playoff hunt.

That's OK: Our memories of that season apparently differ significantly. But I'm sure that what I witnessed wasn't a mirage.

Regardless, you certainly recall Nate, I'm sure. His example is more germane to the Hicks situation--more similar players at their peak, and definitely more similar to Cedric.

Edited June 2, 2023 by LA2

[LA2]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you google him a picture of him playing for Baltimore shows up.

He put up a -.3 rWAR, so I'm unsure how important his contribution was.

Let me repeat what I said in the post:

"After being acquired from the Mets mid-July, Omar provided fine IF defense while hitting an often timely .293/.351/.416 (.786 OPS) over 70+ PAs before a painful 0 for 29 to close out the season."

[glenn__davis]

7 minutes ago, LA2 said:

That's OK: Our memories of that season apparently differ significantly. But I'm sure that what I witnessed wasn't a mirage.

Regardless, you certainly recall Nate, I'm sure. His example is more germane to the Hicks situation--more similar players at their peak, and definitely more similar to Cedric.

Oh I wasn't doubting you.  I looked him up on baseball reference lol.  I just couldn't believe that I had absolutely no memory of him at all.

[LA2]

July 25

35 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Wow.  I consider myself an Orioles fanatic that has followed the Orioles closely since the late 80's and the minor leagues closely since joining this board.  I have absolutely zero recollection of Omar Quintanilla being on the 2012 Orioles, a season where I was hanging on every game during that playoff hunt.

July 25-Aug. 3rd, 2012 vs. the Rays, A, and Yankees, Omar Quintanilla was in the starting lineup for 11 straight games and got a hit in ten of them, going 14 for 38 (.368) with a home run, 3 doubles, 3 walks, and 5 RBIs. One reason I went to Yankee stadium then was to watch him in person.

Edited June 2, 2023 by LA2

[LA2]

5 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Oh I wasn't doubting you.  I looked him up on baseball reference lol.  I just couldn't believe that I had absolutely no memory of him at all.

Oh Ok--understood. Thanks.