TT: DH and 4th outfielder, and last man on the bench situations

[interloper]

I will hold off on final judgement until we see him play a lot in ST, but consider that it's bottom of 9th on the road and Hyde replaces Santander with Mateo as a defensive replacement. I don't love that, personally. I trust McKenna in that role, but all it takes is one bad read and that's the ballgame. No idea if Mateo is reliable in that role, but hopefully we find out quickly. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

ZIPS is projecting Mateo to be .241/.289/.404 vs LHP and .228/.269/.362 vs RHP. That’s obviously not good even against LHP, but if he’s bringing plus to plus plus defense then that’s a palatable line against LHP. I’m skeptical he’s actually going to bring that level of defense given his inconsistency at SS last year and lack of recent experience playing CF (and some very poorly played balls in super limited time out there last year), but after the Ortiz trade I think we’re stuck with him for the time being. 

If Mateo gets any starts or even moderate leverage PAs against RHP that’s pretty inexcusable. Even if he starts against LHP they need to be pinch hitting for him against the first RHP RP he faces if the game is at all close. 

Mateo is a versatile backup, not a guy you are trying to get in the lineup against every left-hander. No one is claiming he should be playing every game against lefties. Neither Mullins or Gunnar need to be platooned.

BTW, he played one ball badly in the outfield. One. Not several, not a a bunch, not a few, one. 

You guys (Not just you) should consider using baseball savant to really back up your claims here. The data is there. No reason to exaggerate something and allow your own eyes bias to affect your judgements. 

[Billy F-Face3]

I think Kjerstad will surprise some people when he plays jn the outfield. He may not seem like the fastest guy on the field but he can still track down fly balls. 

[OriolesMagic83]

Just now, Billy F-Face3 said:

I think Kjerstad will surprise some people when he plays jn the outfield. He may not seem like the fastest guy on the field but he can still track down fly balls. 

I think people are sleeping on Kjerstad's athletic ability.  Some people here view him as David Ortiz in the field.  I would definitely like to see the O's move on from O'Hearn while getting Kjerstad some RF at bats too. 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I think Kjerstad will surprise some people when he plays jn the outfield. He may not seem like the fastest guy on the field but he can still track down fly balls. 

I agree. I still think he's largely underrated and we haven't seen what he can really do yet. Everyone knows about the power tool, but I think people forget that he's got a great hit tool as well. 

[OriolesMagic83]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

I will hold off on final judgement until we see him play a lot in ST, but consider that it's bottom of 9th on the road and Hyde replaces Santander with Mateo as a defensive replacement. I don't love that, personally. I trust McKenna in that role, but all it takes is one bad read and that's the ballgame. No idea if Mateo is reliable in that role, but hopefully we find out quickly. 

Go back and read the thread about McKenna "single-handedly" losing that early game against Boston(?).  It was almost humorous the amount of vitriol aimed McKenna's way. 

[Tony-OH]

I think some of you are looking at this as a Mateo vs McKenna thing and that's not correct in my mind. Mateo is the backup SS right now. The fact that he can play OF as well make McKenna redundant. Now could they both make it, potentially. 

Right now the team is missing a legitimate right-handed DH besides using Rutschman or McCann in that role. Nevin is literally the only guy on the 40-man roster that even remotely fits that bill, but I don't think he brings enough value with the bat or versatility defensively (he's not good anywhere but 1B defensively) . Could he slip into that role? Potentially, but I'd rather see Kjerstad in that role, especially since he slashed .302/.358/.522/.880 against them in AAA. 

But we have seen the Orioles show reluctance to bat lefties (outside of Gunnar) against left-handers even when they have good numbers against southpaws.    

[Tony-OH]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

Go back and read the thread about McKenna "single-handedly" losing that early game against Boston(?).  It was almost humorous the amount of vitriol aimed McKenna's way. 

And he deserved every ounce of vitriol spewed at him. He literally lazily tried to one hand catch a ball that would have ended the game, a game in which the Orioles lost. Of course he's going to get destroyed. Did that make him a bad outfielder, absolutely not, but that kind of brain fart/laziness has been a staple of his career throughout the minors as well. 

Did it seem like that taught him a good lesson, sure. He actually played very well defensively the rest of the year, but he deserved every ounce of vitriol after that play. 

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I think Kjerstad will surprise some people when he plays jn the outfield. He may not seem like the fastest guy on the field but he can still track down fly balls. 

So could Mark Trumbo. Tracking flyballs is just one aspect of being a good defensive outfielder. Saying that, Kjerstad is not a butcher out there, but he'll never be more than adequate out there either. 

[sportsfan8703]

Our bench last year after Mullins came back from the IL was McCann, Mateo, Frazier/Urias/Westburg, and Hicks.  Mckenna wasn't on the team until he was our September call up.  So now we're right back to the same 26 man roster bench of McCann, Mateo, Hilliard(replacing Hicks), Maton.  

 

[forphase1]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Mateo is a versatile backup, not a guy you are trying to get in the lineup against every left-hander. No one is claiming he should be playing every game against lefties. 

If they really treat him as a backup, fine.   But if he's starting a third of the games like he did in the 2nd half last year that's way too many at bats.  I don't want him on the team as I don't believe he will be used as a pinch runner/ backup only.   If he's on the roster he's going to get more at bats than his ability at the plate deserves.   

[interloper]

19 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

And he deserved every ounce of vitriol spewed at him. He literally lazily tried to one hand catch a ball that would have ended the game, a game in which the Orioles lost. Of course he's going to get destroyed. Did that make him a bad outfielder, absolutely not, but that kind of brain fart/laziness has been a staple of his career throughout the minors as well. 

Did it seem like that taught him a good lesson, sure. He actually played very well defensively the rest of the year, but he deserved every ounce of vitriol after that play. 

After the play in the moment, sure, but not the duration of the rest of the year like a lot of fans engaged in. Talk about letting a small sample poison your whole opinion of a player. 

How many fans remembered his walkoff home run later in the season?

Edited February 8 by interloper

[spleen1015]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

How many fans remembered his walkoff home run later in the season?

He hit a walkoff homer?

[CaptainRedbeard]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Mateo is a versatile backup, not a guy you are trying to get in the lineup against every left-hander. No one is claiming he should be playing every game against lefties. Neither Mullins or Gunnar need to be platooned.

BTW, he played one ball badly in the outfield. One. Not several, not a a bunch, not a few, one. 

You guys (Not just you) should consider using baseball savant to really back up your claims here. The data is there. No reason to exaggerate something and allow your own eyes bias to affect your judgements. 

You’re right, it was one ball in CF. He only played 20 innings and had 6 plays out there. However, the one he misplayed was such a horrible route I remember it very well, it was rare to see at the major league level. It had a 95% catch probability on Savant. They shut down the Mateo in CF experiment after that. 

I think Mateo in practice probably will play nearly every game against lefties, but not to platoon Gunnar or Holliday. Gunnar and Holliday absolutely need to be getting reps against LHP even if they’re doing terrible against them (which they won’t), at this stage of their careers they need those PA to make adjustments and eventually it won’t be a weakness (if it ever even looks like one for Holliday at the MLB level, and Gunnar already showed improvement over the course of last year). Assuming Mateo’s the backup CF, he’ll probably play nearly every game against lefties and one of Gunnar/Holliday/Mullins will get a day off or DH. Maybe Urias takes more of the IF opportunities and Mateo plays less, but Urias is not a great LHP platoon option with his splits.

I think they’re making the right call to have Mateo play CF a lot in spring training. He didn’t have the reps last year and he does have plenty of past CF experience before joining the Orioles. He’s got exceptional speed and a good arm. If Mateo comes into Spring Training with a full offseason and looks like he’s smoothed out his routes and fly ball judgment as expected, McKenna doesn’t offer anything over Mateo in CF that justifies an additional roster spot.

[interloper]

Just now, spleen1015 said:

He hit a walkoff homer?

Exactly my point.

https://www.mlb.com/video/ryan-mckenna-homers-2-on-a-fly-ball-to-right-center-field-cedric-mullins