Rob Neyer: Pete Rose and John Dowd

[Bahama O's Fan]

The Hall and the lifetime ban from baseball are separate things.

The Hall specifically changed their rules to ensure the voters wouldn't put Rose in.

I will also ask you a question.

Is there a single, solitary doubt in your mind that the then player player Pete Rose used Amphetamines?

I have no idea what Pete did or did not do. But it was never proven, nor admitted to. The steroid users that were never caught/convicted, whatever, I have no issue with because it is just speculation. But Amphetamines have nothing to do with whether he is in the Hall.

[weams]

The steroid users that were never caught/convicted.

What about the ones that were caught, that got off on technicalities or free passes?

[O-The-Memories]

My issue with the steroid users is that their actions off the field directly affected their stats on the field. Rose's doesn't. He gambled and while that may or may not have affected the teams he was managing (there is no proof either way)' date=' it did not affect what he would go in the hall for, the hits record.[/quote']

I truly think that Rose put certain pitchers or batters in games when it might not have been to the advantage of the Reds. One thing you have to understand about addiction is the sheer amount of justification that goes on. "I didn't gamble" turns into "I gambled, but only on my team", to "I made a mistake, but don't keep me out of the Hall", which is just another failure to take responsibility. I don't see Pete Rose as a changed man, but rather someone who presents himself as a pity case when he's achieved a level of success and wealth that most can only dream of. I would like to see him actually accept help for his issues, but a lot of guys never make it that far.

[Can_of_corn]

I have no idea what Pete did or did not do. But it was never proven' date=' nor admitted to[/b']. The steroid users that were never caught/convicted, whatever, I have no issue with because it is just speculation. But Amphetamines have nothing to do with whether he is in the Hall.

It wasn't?

In an appearance on the"Late Show"taped Monday, Rose was asked by host David Letterman whether he ever used any performance-enhancing drugs as a player. Rose said he never did, but when prodded about"greenies,"explained that he used them _ though they were nothing more than"diet pills."

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Oct02/0,4670,BBORoseLetterman,00.html

Sounds to me like Rose admitted to using PEDs.

[Bahama O's Fan]

It wasn't?

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Oct02/0,4670,BBORoseLetterman,00.html

Sounds to me like Rose admitted to using PEDs.

Sorry, I hadn't seen this before. If these were banned at the time, then I have no problem with the Hall keeping him out on this basis, as long as they do it to all others that were proven to do it.

[Bahama O's Fan]

What about the ones that were caught, that got off on technicalities or free passes?

How is a person viewed that commited a crime, but got off on a technicality due to not being read their rights or unlawful search?

[psychboy12]

If anyone is interested in a full unbiased accounting of the Rose history, "Pete Rose: An American Dilemma," by Kostya Kennedy is a great read. Covers his childhood, family, and development of his poor choices (not just in baseball!). Presents both sides of the case fairly, in my opinion. Just stinks that such a great player made such dumbass choices.

[weams]

Sorry' date=' I hadn't seen this before. If these were banned at the time, then I have no problem with the Hall keeping him out on this basis, as long as they do it to all others that were proven to do it.[/quote']

You mean like Ortiz and Pettitte?

[olehippi]

I kind of separate Rose from the steroid guys. Rose played the game hard and straight up. His "sins" came after he stopped playing,

and even after he was out of baseball. He obviously had/has a gambling addiction and no doubt, is a completely narcissistic jerk. My

feeling is that he didn't cheat the game while playing and should be allowed into the HOF.

On the other hand, the steroid users cheated while playing. They took steroids to enhance their abilities, to extend their careers, and

in the process, increase their personal wealth. They cheated the fans, the team owners, and the integrity of the game. I have zero

sympathy for them. They do not deserve a spot in Cooperstown, unless it is in a small house out behind the museum.....an outhouse.

[Bahama O's Fan]

You mean like Ortiz and Pettitte?

Personally, if one is to be kept out (Like McGwire, Bonds), then all should be. Either using banned substances keeps you out of the Hall or it doesn't. Pick one. Personally, I think the should be more of a reason to be kept out than what Rose did, but again, I probably am in the minority there.

[Enjoy Terror]

I think Pete Rose should be inducted into the Hall of Fame posthumously.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I kind of separate Rose from the steroid guys. Rose played the game hard and straight up. His "sins" came after he stopped playing,

and even after he was out of baseball. He obviously had/has a gambling addiction and no doubt, is a completely narcissistic jerk. My

feeling is that he didn't cheat the game while playing and should be allowed into the HOF.

On the other hand, the steroid users cheated while playing. They took steroids to enhance their abilities, to extend their careers, and

in the process, increase their personal wealth. They cheated the fans, the team owners, and the integrity of the game. I have zero

sympathy for them. They do not deserve a spot in Cooperstown, unless it is in a small house out behind the museum.....an outhouse.

That kinda says how I feel.

[O-The-Memories]

Sorry' date=' I hadn't seen this before. If these were banned at the time, then I have no problem with the Hall keeping him out on this basis, as long as they do it to all others that were proven to do it.[/quote']

That's not the way things work though. If you cheat on your wife and get caught, telling her "I'm not the only one who does it, why don't you get on their case too" isn't going to work. Some guys get caught, some don't. The ones that get caught can avoid a lot of heartache by simply fessing up. That's not what Pete Rose did. In fact, he plays the victim card constantly, when he's the one who gambled on the game. He hasn't learned at all in my opinion. Please take a look at this article, and tell me if you see a man who has changed his life?

Pete Rose "I should have been an alcoholic or beat my wife".

http://http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/08/12/pete-rose-i-should-have-picked-alcohol-or-beat-up-my-wife/

[Bahama O's Fan]

No, I think if you keep one proven steroid user out, you keep all out. Or if you put one in, you put all in.

[weams]

How is a person viewed that commited a crime' date=' but got off on a technicality due to not being read their rights or unlawful search?[/quote']

I'm not talking about a crime. I am talking about those who violated the rules of a game, were caught, but for various reason, not punished. And then we treat them as if they were not steroid or growth supplement users. I believe that O.J. was not guilty. Until he committed more crimes and was.