We have had discussions with MIN re: Santana and Abad

[baltimoreO's22]

Mancini/Sisco, Wright, Tanner Scott? Throw in Walker?

Wright/Wilson, DJ Stewart, Walker and Lee/Garcia that gives them a ML ready arm to replace Santana in the rotation plus a couple of prospects that have a shot at the Majors.

[Crazysilver03]

If the Orioles had kept Hader and Davies they would have a pretty decent rotation and would not have needed to sign Ubaldo and lose a pick or sign Gallardo and lose a pick. Who knows, maybe not having Ubaldo would have led to them paying a bit more for Kazmir and not lose a pick. I do not have an issue with what they are giving a way, but I do have an issue with what they are getting back for it. I hate one year rentals.

How does that make sense? Hader is still in the minors and Ubaldo was signed before Davies was traded.

[mcgraw238]

I'm guessing a Santana deal with ultimately hinge on how much, if any, payroll relief the Twins are willing to send and/or whether they are will to take Ubaldo as part of the deal. I have a hard time seeing a match here.

[baltimoreO's22]

I'm guessing a Santana deal with ultimately hinge on how much, if any, payroll relief the Twins are willing to send and/or whether they are will to take Ubaldo as part of the deal. I have a hard time seeing a match here.

If they take Ubaldo they can earn salary relief by getting out of a contract a year earlier. Granted Jimenez is not nearly the pitcher that Santana is but Santana has 2 years and an option left whereas Jimenez has 1 year left.

[TradeAngelos]

Plus add in the arb increases for guys we have

Tillman 6.22-10ish

Britton 6.75-10ish

Brach 1.25-3

Worley 2.6-4

O'day-7 million(contract)

Gausman-could be a Super two

Abad-1.25- 2ish

That's 37 million right there. 37 + 38 is 75 million. Can we really afford a 75 million dollar pitching staff next year?

I just don't see how we do that. A rental makes the most sense for us.

If we can't "make the financials work" for 5m of Upton, what on God's green earth makes anyone think Santana can work?

On another note your point is correct, we can't afford more payroll on the pitching staff. Unless you are planning on Trumbo and Wieters gone not just one. It just doesn't work with our limitations. I've done projections 3 years out snd while we could afford it post 2017 when Gallardo/Ubaldo are gone, it just isn't happening now.

And we know Minn aint paying any of that money.

[ChuckS]

With Santana we are talking about a guy who is going to be 34-36 for the remainder of the contract. Making 13-14 mil per, he's not someone I want to give up Mancini or Sisco for. Highly likely for regression combined with the fact that he will be pitching in the AL East.

Matt Moore, Hector Santiago....even Hellickson for two months, would be preferable.

I would give them Tanner Scott and Mike Wright, which probably isn't enough. I don't see how Ubaldo is a part of the deal unless we got Nolasco coming back to us.

[bpilktree]

Plus add in the arb increases for guys we have

Tillman 6.22-10ish

Britton 6.75-10ish

Brach 1.25-3

Worley 2.6-4

O'day-7 million(contract)

Gausman-could be a Super two

Abad-1.25- 2ish

That's 37 million right there. 37 + 38 is 75 million. Can we really afford a 75 million dollar pitching staff next year?

I just don't see how we do that. A rental makes the most sense for us.

It would be around the same payroll that we have now because we are getting rid of Wieters next year. The Ubaldo price is basically a lost cause it doesn't matter what we do. Half of your payroll should go to pitching and half to hitting so 75 million is not something we couldn't handle. We loose Matt, Trumbo, and Alvarez next year. That is a good chunk of the list yeah the arbitration will take up some but we could still afford it.

[Fan4Life]

Lol.

Sorry, i like davies but parra was a solid of at the time and davirs was and still looks to be a likely #5 starter. Not sure you can get fleeced when thats the case, even if we could use something like that at the moment.

You rarey ever win a deal at deadline. Its just aboit not going overboard.

I think we need a secondary player evaluation system where after some period of working with a prospect using typical system policies and procedures, they move into this system where alternative approaches and evaluations are used. In this way you may reduce if not eliminate players leaving your system and succeeding elsewhere.

[JohnD]

MLB revenues have shot up significantly in recent years. Clinging to ideas of what makes a high payroll is silly. Revenues have shot up and owners are pocketing more money than ever before, considering payrolls haven't risen at the same rate. Not even close. And never mind how much MASN money is being pocketed too. Angelos can either spend some of that TV money or die with it.

That said, Santana and Abad wouldn't be the worst acquisitions, depending on what was dealt over there. I'd certainly prefer Santana over Cashner, who would struggle to rate above Worley.

Truthfully I'm ok with the Vanimal as a fifth starter. I'm more leery about trying to depend on Bundy down the stretch without pushing him too far.

[ChuckS]

I think we need a secondary player evaluation system where after some period of working with a prospect using typical system policies and procedures, they move into this system where alternative approaches and evaluations are used. In this way you may reduce if not eliminate players leaving your system and succeeding elsewhere.

I think any time you deal finished products (like Davies) and like Sisco and Mancini for short term or marginal upgrades you are setting yourself up for failure, 9 times out of 10. You deal a guy in A ball with some upside and both teams are taking a risk. The risk it seems to me, is all our's in these type of deals.

Santana's contract is not "team friendly" as some have pointed out. That might be the case if he was 29 or 30, but he's going to be 34 next season. He's led baseball in homeruns allowed in the past. No thanks.

[TradeAngelos]

It would be around the same payroll that we have now because we are getting rid of Wieters next year. The Ubaldo price is basically a lost cause it doesn't matter what we do. Half of your payroll should go to pitching and half to hitting so 75 million is not something we couldn't handle. We loose Matt, Trumbo, and Alvarez next year. That is a good chunk of the list yeah the arbitration will take up some but we could still afford it.

What we "can afford" and what we are "willing to spend" are two vastly different numbers. And I love how everyone assumes we are just going to let 100HR walk out door and that is a done deal. Far from it.

[oriolesacox]

Teams talking to Phillies about Jeremy Hellickson say they want "one of your top 5 prospects" - or they'll keep him & take the draft pick

Pick your poison folks

[oriolesacox]

Teams talking to Phillies about Jeremy Hellickson say they want "one of your top 5 prospects" - or they'll keep him & take the draft pick

Pick your poison folks

https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/758350355721625600

[Tx Oriole]

I don't like the idea of getting Santana. He's not a rental. He makes 13.5 million a year through 2018 with a 1 million buyout for 2019.

That's a lot of future money owed. Twins would have to eat money or take Ubaldo back for this to make sense.

I like the idea of getting a rental better.

Why give up prospects for a guy that will be gone after the season? I assume the

prospects have to be good ones for Santana.

[atomic]

I don't want Santana. You could end up with 3 pitchers with ERA in the 5+ range all getting paid over 10 million a year. Seems like a good way to be a very bad team.