Hicks activated, Cowser optioned

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

There is simply no way you believe that. 

Without the benefit of hindsight, who overpaid?

[Tony-OH]

6 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Teams were out to fleece the Orioles at the deadline which is why they didn’t trade for a top flight starter. The Flaherty trade was enough of a fleecing on its own. The fact we had to give up what we did just to obtain a mediocre starter should tell you all you need to know about what teams were asking for for higher end guys. 

The Flaherty trade was not a "fleecing" at all in my opinion. Prieto is a line drive hitter without a plus position, Rom is AAA pitcher with no major league out pitch, and Showalter is an A-ball pitcher with some talent, but a delivery that screams reliever and injury risk.

Prieto was going to be the only one of the three that would have ended up in the top 30 prospects for me. 

Now Flaherty has been a disappointment with the Orioles no doubt, but he had been pitching well for the Cardinals at the time of the trade and was worth a shot once Elias couldn't land one of the big names at the trade deadline.

So while the results have not been what Elias wanted with Flaherty, he traded from his depth of C-level prospects not his impact ones.

[RZNJ]

Just now, MurphDogg said:

That is literally how it works though.

The alternative is that Hicks is rewarded for being released by the Yankees and he draws two Major League salaries.

The team that releases a player is responsible for the salary the player is owed, less what he is paid by the team that signs him.

No.  The Yankees are responsible for the entire contract.  The Orioles claimed him and are responsible for paying him the ML minimum on top of that.  Next year Hicks can sign for anyone for any amount and it has nothing to do with his Yankee contract.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Yankee contract is owed in full.  You want to penalize Hicks for finding work elsewhere?   You think if the Orioles pay Hicks 1/5M next year that it just comes out of his Yankee contract?   Check the contact section of your law books!   

 

Cot's Contracts is pretty good with this stuff.  Here is what they say:

"signed by Baltimore as a free agent 5/30/23, with Orioles paying $483,871 in 2023 and Yankees responsible for remainder of contract."

Based  on that  the O's would have had to pay Hicks more that his 10.5m Yankee contract for Hick to receive more money.   Next year Hicks gets 9.5m from the Yankees less what any other team pays him.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/baltimore-orioles/

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Yankee contract is owed in full.  You want to penalize Hicks for finding work elsewhere?   You think if the Orioles pay Hicks 1/5M next year that it just comes out of his Yankee contract?   Check the contact section of your law books!   

 

You are wrong about this in many ways.  MLB contracts absolutely provide that if a player who is under contract is released and signs elsewhere, whatever that player receives from the other team is credited against the original team’s payment obligations.   That is why guys like Hicks have no incentive to make their new team pay them above the minimum.   The player gets no benefit from it, it only helps their old team if they get paid more.   

It’s not that different from what happens if a tenant breaks a lease and the landlord immediately finds a new tenant.  The landlord doesn’t get to collect rent from the old tenant for breaking his lease while charging the new tenant the same rent for the same period.  
 

[sportsfan8703]

Hicks is a SH that can at least stand in CF occasionally. Some team will offer him $5 million for 2024. I mean we gave Givens $5 million for 2023. 

I like Hicks, but I think those ABs should go to ease Cowser into the lineup. If Santander is traded, then maybe some thought is given to keeping Hicks. Just like 2023 with Gunnar, hand Cowser the job and it’s not about what Cowser is in April 2024, but what he is in September 2024. 

[wildcard]

O's did not claim Hicks.  According to Baseball Reference he was released by the Yankees and was signed as a free agent by the O's.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hicksaa01.shtml

Edited September 12, 2023 by wildcard

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You are wrong about this in many ways.  MLB contracts absolutely provide that if a player who is under contract is released and signs elsewhere, whatever that player receives from the other team is credited against the original team’s payment obligations.   That is why guys like Hicks have no incentive to make their new team pay them above the minimum.   The player gets no benefit from it, it only helps their old team if they get paid more.   

It’s not that different from what happens if a tenant breaks a lease and the landlord immediately finds a new tenant.  The landlord doesn’t get to collect rent from the old tenant for breaking his lease while charging the new tenant the same rent for the same period.  
 

Ok. I’ll concede that is true for this year but I don’t believe it has anything to do with a contract Hicks signs with a team for next year.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Ok. I’ll concede that is true for this year but I don’t believe it has anything to do with a contract Hicks signs with a team for next year.

I'm having a great time for the record.

Why wouldn't it be the case next year?

He might be able to double dip if he went to Japan or Korea.

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Cot's Contracts is pretty good with this stuff.  Here is what they say:

"signed by Baltimore as a free agent 5/30/23, with Orioles paying $483,871 in 2023 and Yankees responsible for remainder of contract."

Based  on that  the O's would have had to pay Hicks more that his 10.5m Yankee contract for Hick to receive more money.   Next year Hicks gets 9.5m from the Yankees less what any other team pays him.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/baltimore-orioles/

So Hicks can double dip on salaries next year up to $10.5 million?  Or we can offer him $10.5 million for 2024 and not have to actually pay that?  

[baltfan]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Teams were out to fleece the Orioles at the deadline which is why they didn’t trade for a top flight starter. The Flaherty trade was enough of a fleecing on its own. The fact we had to give up what we did just to obtain a mediocre starter should tell you all you need to know about what teams were asking for for higher end guys. 

I completely agree with this take based upon what Elias was saying.  Elias knows that the Orioles #4 prospect is a #2 prospect for many and a #8 prospect is equivalent to the #4 for other teams.  If you have a largesse, you can trade from 10-20 and still have room on the 40 man.  

[RZNJ]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm having a great time for the record.

Why wouldn't it be the case next year?

He might be able to double dip if he went to Japan or Korea.

The Yankees owe him his contract.  They released him.   Why shouldn’t he be able to make an extra 5M if he signs with another team next year?   It has nothing to do with his Yankee contract.    

[dystopia]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Without the benefit of hindsight, who overpaid?

Angels overpaid for Giolito. Houston overpaid for Verlander. Texas overpaid for Montgomery. Toronto overpaid for Jordan Hicks. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Angels overpaid for Giolito. Houston overpaid for Verlander. Texas overpaid for Montgomery. Toronto overpaid for Jordan Hicks. 

I'll disagree on all of the above, based off of what the situation was at the time.

Maybe you are just someone that thinks that teams shouldn't ever trade for players at the deadline.

I'm of the mindset that you have to give up quality to get quality.

A lot of the guys traded at the deadline aren't going to amount to anything in the majors.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The Yankees owe him his contract.  They released him.   Why shouldn’t he be able to make an extra 5M if he signs with another team next year?   It has nothing to do with his Yankee contract.    

You eventually conceded you were incorrect about this season.

What is different about next season that what is true this season wouldn't be true next season?