Offseason: Shin-Soo Choo

[waroriole]

See that deal doesn't sound too terrible to me, at least in theory. But when you think about how people around here count their pennies over Brian Roberts' $10 million... I mean Choo would have to really crater to be that bad. But that's what Roberts did. That's what Hamilton is doing. Alfonso Soriano too, and the guy who signed the same year as him, Carlos Lee, sorta. I just don't like the risk these contracts entail especially when we're already trading down for draft picks.

I hear what you're saying, and I'm not a fan of giving out big deals to FA. I think there are certain situations where it makes sense, and this is one of them. We're not trying to force anything here. He fits our team needs. He is a LF and he has great OBP skills. Those guys you mention are free swingers, and that doesn't age as well. As for BRob, I think he would have been a decent performer, if not for the concussion issues. It's not like that is something you can predict.

[waroriole]

If I thought we could afford them, two players I would like to pursue would be Kendry Morales(a good DH from both sides of the plate who could give Davis a blow at 1B once in a while), and Zobrist, if TB doesn't pick up his option. He can play every where, and is just the kind of bat we don't have.

I can't imagine any scenario where TB doesn't pick up his $7M option (it's really only an extra 4.5M because the buyout is 2.5). They also have a 7.5M club option for '15. Even if they decide they don't want him/can't afford him, they could get a very good haul by trading him.

There is ZERO chance that Zobrist is a FA.

[JTrea81]

I hear what you're saying, and I'm not a fan of giving out big deals to FA. I think there are certain situations where it makes sense, and this is one of them. We're not trying to force anything here. He fits our team needs. He is a LF and he has great OBP skills. Those guys you mention are free swingers, and that doesn't age as well. As for BRob, I think he would have been a decent performer, if not for the concussion issues. It's not like that is something you can predict.

Not to mention if his defense declines, he's the type of hitter that would make a good DH, just like Damon was.

[waroriole]

Not to mention if his defense declines, he's the type of hitter that would make a good DH, just like Damon was.

If his defense declines any further, he's going to be in Adam Dunn territory.

He's definitely not a CF (where he's played this year), but it's possible a move to a corner spot (LF) could return him to a -5 guy, or even better.

[Barnaby Graves]

Those guys you mention are free swingers, and that doesn't age as well.

Heh well, there aren't a lot of things that age well except discipline. And Lee could take a walk or two. Not like Roberts but Lee's problem was his ISO... it took a dive. And when these guys slug less and less, they sometimes get more desperate, and pitchers also get less afraid of them, which is a combination that hurts walk rate. Hamilton K's a lot too but his walk rate is similar to Lee's, a bit better by career.

As for BRob, I think he would have been a decent performer, if not for the concussion issues. It's not like that is something you can predict.

Yeah but injury is something I factor heavily into these contracts. I don't blame Angelos for not giving pitchers big contracts... there's a lot less Mussinas than Mike Hamptons I think. Well Hampton's deal is absolutely out there but in general, it's hard to invest so heavily in 30+ year olds with declining testosterone and HGH in their blood.

Well... most of them :laughlol:

[Aristotelian]

He solves some offensive problems and his OBP and 5 WAR sure look good. But I would think Choo is going to want 5+ years. Any addition now will compromise our ability to re-sign Davis, Hardy, and Wieters. If we were to increase our budget (which would be great), I would rather prioritize a top tier starting pitcher (which there aren't really any of in this class). I would guess we will sit tight and go for incremental improvements, which is probably what we should do.

[Barnaby Graves]

Any addition now will compromise our ability to re-sign Davis, Hardy, and Wieters.

This is another important point. Don't want to rob Peter to give Paul a 5 year, 75 million fish deal.

[waroriole]

Heh well, there aren't a lot of things that age well except discipline. And Lee could take a walk or two. Not like Roberts but Lee's problem was his ISO... it took a dive. And when these guys slug less and less, they sometimes get more desperate, and pitchers also get less afraid of them, which is a combination that hurts walk rate. Hamilton K's a lot too but his walk rate is similar to Lee's, a bit better by career.

Yeah but injury is something I factor heavily into these contracts. I don't blame Angelos for not giving pitchers big contracts... there's a lot less Mussinas than Mike Hamptons I think. Well Hampton's deal is absolutely out there but in general, it's hard to invest so heavily in 30+ year olds with declining testosterone and HGH in their blood.

Well... most of them :laughlol:

Choo has a much better eye than those 2. Also, the other 2 guys got their money from power. Walk rates for the 3:

Choo 12.2

Hamilton 8.2

Lee 7.5

I agree about pitchers. There aren't many FA SP I'd give a big contract. Feldman might be a good signing if we can get him for around 2/15.

[waroriole]

This is another important point. Don't want to rob Peter to give Paul a 5 year, 75 million fish deal.

How much would you give Davis?

What do you think he'll be going forward?

[JTrea81]

He solves some offensive problems and his OBP and 5 WAR sure look good. But I would think Choo is going to want 5+ years. Any addition now will compromise our ability to re-sign Davis, Hardy, and Wieters. If we were to increase our budget (which would be great), I would rather prioritize a top tier starting pitcher (which there aren't really any of in this class). I would guess we will sit tight and go for incremental improvements, which is probably what we should do.

Wieters and Hardy can both walk. They can both be replaced. Davis is the one that will take the big money.

[JTrea81]

Choo has a much better eye than those 2. Also, the other 2 guys got their money from power. Walk rates for the 3:

Choo 12.2

Hamilton 8.2

Lee 7.5

I agree about pitchers. There aren't many FA SP I'd give a big contract. Feldman might be a good signing if we can get him for around 2/15.

AJ Burnett if he doesn't retire would be a nice add. Colby Lewis and Tim Hudson are a couple of interesting names as well.

[waroriole]

AJ Burnett if he doesn't retire would be a nice add. Colby Lewis and Tim Hudson are a couple of interesting names as well.

Burnett seems intent on staying in PIT.

I'm not sure about the other 2.

[sportsfan8703]

Choo would be the perfect guy to sign and put in front of Davis and Jones to maximize thier power. Plus he's not one of these guys that are overly reliant on 1 tool, except for taking walks. Which is something that will still be there over the course of his contract. To me it's the perfect fit. An OBP machine in front of Davis and Jones. I'd rather give him 15 mil than a supposed FA "ACE". Grow the arms, sign the bats.

[Aristotelian]

Wieters and Hardy can both walk. They can both be replaced. Davis is the one that will take the big money.

I don't think we need to resign them at all costs, but they are valuable guys that we don't currently have a replacement for. How are you going to find a plus offensive C with Gold Glove defense? If you want to replace Hardy with Machado at SS, then who do you want to replace Machado? If we can extend Hardy at his current level for 2-3 more years, I would be all over that. Not sure about Wieters, but we do need a "plan B", which we could not afford if we spent all our money on Choo.

[sportsfan8703]

I don't think we need to resign them at all costs, but they are valuable guys that we don't currently have a replacement for. How are you going to find a plus offensive C with Gold Glove defense? If you want to replace Hardy with Machado at SS, then who do you want to replace Machado? If we can extend Hardy at his current level for 2-3 more years, I would be all over that. Not sure about Wieters, but we do need a "plan B", which we could not afford if we spent all our money on Choo.

I'd extend Hardy but Schoop has become underrated on here. So the wbc leads to a back injury and now he his Keith Reed on here?