Manny Machado in 2014

[OFFNY]

Boswell is showing a bit of obliviousness - first, by comparing Machado to a 1B who is well-below-average defensively; second, by ignoring the fact that this was technically Machado's age-20 season. He's not wrong - you want to see more walks, but it's not a huge concern at this point given the fact that his BB% wasn't really a problem on his way up.

That aside, I'd put even money that Machado's OPS next year is w/in ~ .025 OPS of Davis.

Jim !!! How are you ???

How about that Chris Tillman ???

[Lucky Jim]

So you think Davis is going to backslide that much?

I think Davis will be somewhere in the .850-.900 range, likely. Not sure that's a backslide, really. More a slight correction.

Jim !!! How are you ???

How about that Chris Tillman ???

Good, good. I was very pleased watching Chris handle everything as well as he did this year. And, of course, would like to add (a general): I told you so.

[El Gordo]

I think Davis will be somewhere in the .850-.900 range, likely. Not sure that's a backslide, really. More a slight correction.

Good, good. I was very pleased watching Chris handle everything as well as he did this year. And, of course, would like to add (a general): I told you so.

Don't see Manny getting much beyond .800 OPS. Doubt Davis falls as far as .825.

[Redskins Rick]

I do find it hilarious that the kid is approaching 200 hits at 21 in his first full season and we should "wait to find out if he can hit". You can't make stuff like that up, it's pure gold.

Yeah, the "so-called" experts who know everything, yet so little.

[Lucky Jim]

Don't see Manny getting much beyond .800 OPS. Doubt Davis falls as far as .825.

I haven't been around much/in a while, but I'm pretty sure we both recognize that neither of us has a problem with/should be surprised by the fact that we disagree.

[calmunderfire]

I'm not really worried about what Machado's OPS will be next year. I'm more interested in just his OBP. I'm more inclined to believe his 2nd half OBP is more indicative of his true talent than the first half. That's when he became a higher profile hitter and he never adjusted to some of the adjustments the league made to him.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm not really worried about what Machado's OPS will be next year. I'm more interested in just his OBP. I'm more inclined to believe his 2nd half OBP is more indicative of his true talent than the first half. That's when he became a higher profile hitter and he never adjusted to some of the adjustments the league made to him.

What adjustments would that be? You mean "slider, slider, slider" or if "I was a pitcher I'd throw him sliders, sliders, sliders" or "I trust Jim Palmer's analysis that he just can't hit sliders" or that "everybody is an idiot at looking at pitch values and it's all about the slider"?

Now you're trying to introduce a more nuanced argument about "adjustments" after being a repetitive droll for 3 months.

Please. tell us. What adjustments do you think Machado needs to make?

[calmunderfire]

What adjustments would that be? You mean "slider, slider, slider" or if "I was a pitcher I'd throw him sliders, sliders, sliders" or "I trust Jim Palmer's analysis that he just can't hit sliders" or that "everybody is an idiot at looking at pitch values and it's all about the slider"?

Now you're trying to introduce a more nuanced argument about "adjustments" after being a repetitive droll for 3 months.

Please. tell us. What adjustments do you think Machado needs to make?

These are the adjustments Machado can't handle.

1. More sliders, especially 2 strike sliders.

2. Less high fastballs.

3. Less pitches in the zone.

[CA-ORIOLE]

These are the adjustments Machado can't handle.

1. More sliders, especially 2 strike sliders.

2. Less high fastballs.

3. Less pitches in the zone.

Wow, "fastballs and pitches out of the strike zone" Amazing. Maybe some issues with 2 seam fastballs/sinkers too Calmunderfire? It's amazing the statistics didn't point this stuff out in your initial "slider, slider, slider" argument. You know when you were dismissing other people as dumb for bringing them up.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm not really worried about what Machado's OPS will be next year. I'm more interested in just his OBP. I'm more inclined to believe his 2nd half OBP is more indicative of his true talent than the first half. That's when he became a higher profile hitter and he never adjusted to some of the adjustments the league made to him.

I don't think there's any substantive reason to believe that. When Hank Aaron put up a .675 OPS with two homers in the 2nd half of his age 20 season was that more indicative of his true talent than the .822 he put up the first half? Obviously his flaws were so glaring that the National League saw them even without the benefit of modern video, and it must have been divine intervention that he bounced back from it.

[calmunderfire]

I don't think there's any substantive reason to believe that. When Hank Aaron put up a .675 OPS with two homers in the 2nd half of his age 20 season was that more indicative of his true talent than the .822 he put up the first half? Obviously his flaws were so glaring that the National League saw them even without the benefit of modern video, and it must have been divine intervention that he bounced back from it.

1. Hank Aaron is a far more talented hitter than Machado.

2. Most great players show actual greatness early, not signs.

[calmunderfire]

Wow, "fastballs and pitches out of the strike zone" Amazing. Maybe some issues with 2 seam fastballs/sinkers too Calmunderfire? It's amazing the statistics didn't point this stuff out in your initial "slider, slider, slider" argument. You know when you were dismissing other people as dumb for bringing them up.

His number one weakness is he cannot lay off sliders out of the strike zone.

[DrungoHazewood]

1. Hank Aaron is a far more talented hitter than Machado.

2. Most great players show actual greatness early, not signs.

1. How do you know this, since they had very similar numbers as 20-year-olds, despite Machado playing in a demonstrably superior league?

2. Oh really? And putting up a 7-win season at 20 isn't great?

At 20: Barry Bonds was in the minor leagues.

Willie Mays put up a 920 OPS in the first half, but slumped to a 767 the second half.

Hank Aaron slumped badly the 2nd half of the year, as previously documented.

Tris Speaker OPS'd .538.

Honus Wagner was not playing professional baseball.

Stan Musial had 47 MLB plate appearances after splitting the year between Class C ball and AA ball.

Eddie Collins went 8-for-23, then had a .691 after becoming a regular at 21.

Lou Gehrig went 11-for-26 then got sent back to the minors for almost all of the next year, too.

Rickey Henderson had a .675 OPS.

Mike Schmidt wasn't yet in pro ball, several years from starting his MLB career with a .650ish OPS in his first season+.

Joe Morgan had a .492 OPS in 10 MLB games.

Eddie Mathews had a .767 OPS and led the league in strikeouts.

Yaz had 7 homers in a full season in AAA, and followed that up with a .721 OPS at 21.

But yea, you're right. Except for 75% of inner-circle HOFers everyone always hits the ground running and consistently dominates MLB at 20.

[Ridgway22]

Oh my God.... Manny just went down hard, its a knee.

[Barnaby Graves]

I think it will be a fun 2014 for him unless he gets hurt like any other player.

:vader: