Pie for Christmas?

[Cubsfan]

I've posted on this subject before. I think Pie, Marquis, plus Hill for Scott would be great for both teams. Scott fills a role for the Cubs (LH platoon RF and saves money over FA) and he has no long term future with the O's. Marquis eats innings for 2009 while Pie and Hill are high reward/high risk players. Pie will never get a shot with the Cubs because they are in a win-now mode. Hill's control issues seems to be in his head more than in his arm, but control issues are a no-no on Piniella's team. I doubt whether Hill will get another serious shot with the Cubs unless he totally dominates in AAA or spring training. The Cubs might have some interest in Sherrill if a deal could be expanded. Finally, the Cubs have no interest in Roberts or Olsen (unless he's needed in a Peavy deal).

[Sports Guy]

Isn't Olson one of those guys? We are trading for a strenght by giving up a weakness. I would be more open to the deal if we were to sign 2 or 3 starters, but we have not done that as of yet. Hamilton only fell out of favor due to the drugs, that guy was always the real deal. We could have added Carlos Pena by extending an invite to camp a few years back. If we get Pie where does he play? Is he out of options? If you asked 50 baseball experts if they would take Pie or Reimold how do you think they would answer. The deal doesn't make sense based on the current makeup of this team.

Olson isn't going to the Cubs unless Peavy is.

[jerios55]

I've posted on this subject before. I think Pie, Marquis, plus Hill for Scott would be great for both teams. Scott fills a role for the Cubs (LH platoon RF and saves money over FA) and he has no long term future with the O's. Marquis eats innings for 2009 while Pie and Hill are high reward/high risk players. Pie will never get a shot with the Cubs because they are in a win-now mode. Hill's control issues seems to be in his head more than in his arm, but control issues are a no-no on Piniella's team. I doubt whether Hill will get another serious shot with the Cubs unless he totally dominates in AAA or spring training. The Cubs might have some interest in Sherrill if a deal could be expanded. Finally, the Cubs have no interest in Roberts or Olsen (unless he's needed in a Peavy deal).

I think Scott for Hill, Pie, Marquis is a good deal. Olson is only if the Peavy talks heat up again. I personally think we should hold on to Sherill. I would think there is still interest in Roberts, but think there is no chance a trade could be worked out.

[alexei606]

You never know until you try. I would be willing to bet that Dave is upset that the Cubs won't give Pie a chance. At the same time he can see that they won't give him a chance and is saying that he is a good buy low opportunity for a team like the O's.

Personally, if the O's could get Pie, Marquis and Hill (another buy low) for Scott it would be a great deal. Marquis would be a good 3-5 range SP for a year and Pie and Hill are cheap options for a few years. Scott isn't so good we shouldn't look to upgrade. If Pie fails we can still use Reimold in LF. I hardly think one persons opinion should make the decision for you. MacPhail seems to like him, so I'd take his opinion over Aaron Fitt.

Ok, first I never said that I took one person's opinion - this was just the latest opinion that I referenced that has stated that Pie is a bust. I also look at the stats (realizing that the ML ones are quite limited). If you trust McPhail - fine - he was there when Pie was highly rated; but now, Hendry (who Dave says is a much better GM than Andy) and of course Pinella (granted he likes production now) are ready to give up on him. This to me, is a red flag and appears to be like Patterson. Of course, I could be wrong.

Second point, why not give Reimold a chance now - many including Fitt who I quoted on Pie believes that his power is a great tool and that he has a chance to be more than a solid regular. If Pie hasn't been given enough of a chance, then certainly Reimold hasn't either.

Finally, if the O's want to pick up good talent cheaply, I believe that there are better options: Hermida and Baldelli. For example, Pie is being compared to Adam Jones whose comp is Torii Hunter while Baldelli's comp was Joe Dimaggio. Granted, there are health issues with Baldelli, but if the O's could land him for a contract with incentives, this could be another Hamilton.

I really don't know if the Cubs would do your deal - Hill is intriguing, though also very much like Cabrera (wild, wild) although he did have a decent year in 2007. Marquis is a salary dump and ok for one year as others have posted and I agree with that assessment. But again, I think that there are better options in FA that I hope that the O's can get pitching wise.

[davearm]

Isn't Olson one of those guys? We are trading for a strenght by giving up a weakness. I would be more open to the deal if we were to sign 2 or 3 starters, but we have not done that as of yet. Hamilton only fell out of favor due to the drugs, that guy was always the real deal. We could have added Carlos Pena by extending an invite to camp a few years back. If we get Pie where does he play? Is he out of options? If you asked 50 baseball experts if they would take Pie or Reimold how do you think they would answer. The deal doesn't make sense based on the current makeup of this team.

How do *you* think they would answer?

The tone of the question would suggest you think Reimold is a slam-dunk, but I very much doubt that your proverbial 50 baseball experts would agree. In fact I suspect there would be a split, with just as many having given up on Reimold as on Pie.

Regardless, I don't care enough about Reimold to go to the mat fighting over him.

[davearm]

The Cubs should spend those dollars in other places. The Cubs farm system is not very strong at this point. They dealt Ceda to the Marlins and he is listed as the Marlins 10th best prospect according to BA. The only guys I hear anything about are Samardzija and Vitters. I think the Indians or White Sox would be a good fit. I would try to land Brandon Allen and Getz for Roberts. I would be very happy with a young 1B and 2B prospect in return for Roberts. According to BA they are the #6 and #9 prospects in the White Sox farm system.

Pursuing Roberts would run against the grain of all the offseason moves the White Sox have made and attempted to make. They seem to be in a cost-cutting, getting younger mode.

[Elon Os Fan]

I've posted on this subject before. I think Pie, Marquis, plus Hill for Scott would be great for both teams. Scott fills a role for the Cubs (LH platoon RF and saves money over FA) and he has no long term future with the O's. Marquis eats innings for 2009 while Pie and Hill are high reward/high risk players. Pie will never get a shot with the Cubs because they are in a win-now mode. Hill's control issues seems to be in his head more than in his arm, but control issues are a no-no on Piniella's team. I doubt whether Hill will get another serious shot with the Cubs unless he totally dominates in AAA or spring training. The Cubs might have some interest in Sherrill if a deal could be expanded. Finally, the Cubs have no interest in Roberts or Olsen (unless he's needed in a Peavy deal).

You think we can squeeze Cedeno in this deal of (Scott for Marquis Pie Hill)? Would Sherrill have to be added?

[davearm]

Then I guess the Cubs are fools according to your definition when they sign Joey Gathright and want to trade your Adam Jones-caliber talent Pie.

Or, is it more like Aaron Fitt said yesterday in his chat:

Quote:

Rick Oakland CA: Felix Pie is out of options and not in the Cubs' plans. I'm sure he can be good fielding CF in the majors and his hitting might surprise. Should some non-contender pick him up and give him two months to show what he can do given consistent ABs?

SportsNation Aaron Fitt: I think Pie could have a bounce like Corey Patterson had when he first went to Baltimore, but I see him having a Patterson-like fizzle in the long term.

I know your retort is that Pie hasn't been given a real shot (may be true), but, then, it is pretty foolish for the Cubs to not give him a shot if he truly is more Adam Jones than Corey Patterson. My feeling is that he is really more Patterson than Jones and I haven't seen a good trade outside of the Trachsel one with the Cubs and even that one hasn't yet given us any major league players (granted, Moore still has a somewhat of a shot). I would like to see the O's go for Hermida over Pie. Or try to add Baldelli.

At the top of Lou Piniella's list of job responsibilities is "Win the World Series Immediately". Guys that help further that cause will play, and the ones that don't, won't. It's really that simple.

That sort of produce-or-else philosophy is good in some ways, and bad in others. It's bad for guys like Pie, who for whatever reason didn't hit the ground running. Doesn't mean he won't get up to speed eventually, it just means the Cubs can't afford to wait around for it if doing so might cost them games in the short term.

So one can look at the situation with an eye toward buying low on the guys the Cubs don't have the luxury of being patient with, or with the attitude that they must be junk since the Cubs have given up on them.

Hey maybe the "SportsNation Aaron Fitt" crowd has it all figured out, and Pie's destined to be a bust. And maybe the crowd that believes it's way too soon to write a talented guy off after a few hundred sporadic ABs have it right, and Pie's a breakout waiting to happen.

Heck if I know what'll happen, but I'm not foolish enough to close my mind to either possibility.

[davearm]

The the Cubs should get hudson instead! A good idea since other than Vitters the Cubs have little talent.

Also Pie has little value now as everyone knows the Cubs will move him.

The Cubs have no need for either Hudson or Roberts. The Cubs have 2 useful 2Bs already.

And availability does not equate with value. If it did, Peavy would be a Cub right now.

[Greg Pappas]

At the top of Lou Piniella's list of job responsibilities is "Win the World Series Immediately". Guys that help further that cause will play, and the ones that don't, won't. It's really that simple.

That sort of produce-or-else philosophy is good in some ways, and bad in others. It's bad for guys like Pie, who for whatever reason didn't hit the ground running. Doesn't mean he won't get up to speed eventually, it just means the Cubs can't afford to wait around for it if doing so might cost them games in the short term.

So one can look at the situation with an eye toward buying low on the guys the Cubs don't have the luxury of being patient with, or with the attitude that they must be junk since the Cubs have given up on them.

Hey maybe the "SportsNation Aaron Fitt" crowd has it all figured out, and Pie's destined to be a bust. And maybe the crowd that believes it's way too soon to write a talented guy off after a few hundred sporadic ABs have it right, and Pie's a breakout waiting to happen.

Heck if I know what'll happen, but I'm not foolish enough to close my mind to either possibility.

Excellent post. I for one would love to add Pie, and am hopeful that a deal can be worked out.

[Cubsfan]

You think we can squeeze Cedeno in this deal of (Scott for Marquis Pie Hill)? Would Sherrill have to be added?

I mentioned that the Cubs might be interested in Sherrill. You would have to add something to the original deal because Scott isn't worth 4 players.

[Cubsfan]

Ok, first I never said that I took one person's opinion - this was just the latest opinion that I referenced that has stated that Pie is a bust. I also look at the stats (realizing that the ML ones are quite limited). If you trust McPhail - fine - he was there when Pie was highly rated; but now, Hendry (who Dave says is a much better GM than Andy) and of course Pinella (granted he likes production now) are ready to give up on him. This to me, is a red flag and appears to be like Patterson. Of course, I could be wrong.

Second point, why not give Reimold a chance now - many including Fitt who I quoted on Pie believes that his power is a great tool and that he has a chance to be more than a solid regular. If Pie hasn't been given enough of a chance, then certainly Reimold hasn't either.

Finally, if the O's want to pick up good talent cheaply, I believe that there are better options: Hermida and Baldelli. For example, Pie is being compared to Adam Jones whose comp is Torii Hunter while Baldelli's comp was Joe Dimaggio. Granted, there are health issues with Baldelli, but if the O's could land him for a contract with incentives, this could be another Hamilton.

I really don't know if the Cubs would do your deal - Hill is intriguing, though also very much like Cabrera (wild, wild) although he did have a decent year in 2007. Marquis is a salary dump and ok for one year as others have posted and I agree with that assessment. But again, I think that there are better options in FA that I hope that the O's can get pitching wise.

It's obvious you haven't checked with the Marlins on the asking price of Hermida. He will be far from cheap with teams lined up to trade for him. The reasons Pie is a good option is the fact that you have Reimold as a plan B and you're getting him dirt cheap.

[davearm]

It's obvious you haven't checked with the Marlins on the asking price of Hermida. He will be far from cheap with teams lined up to trade for him. The reasons Pie is a good option is the fact that you have Reimold as a plan B and you're getting him dirt cheap.

I was going to make the same comment.

If the fish were inclined to sell Hermida cheaply, the line of interested teams would be long and he'd probably already have a new home by now.

[Sports Guy]

Pie is just another player, in the long line of players, that Hangouters have given up on after 1 struggling year and then complain that the Orioles don't have enough talent and that we aren't obtaining it in creative ways.

[clapdiddy]

Pie is just another player, in the long line of players, that Hangouters have given up on after 1 struggling year and then complain that the Orioles don't have enough talent and that we aren't obtaining it in creative ways.

I think so, too. I look at Pie and think "Carl Crawford without the base-stealing skills".