The Great Tillman Debate

[EL_Coyote]

One thing to remember about his thread and topic

If either Tillman clearly outperformed Hernandez or Hernandez outperformed Tillman all ST long this entire thread is completely worthless. As it stands now, based upon ST performances. Jason Berken should have gotten more time and looks as a starter. Right now Hernandez looks like the winner based completely off his last start. You throw that last start out and "POOF" both look similarly inept.

I am pulling for both of them and want the best choice made both long and short term. Both players have options left. It's not as if the #5 job will hold all season long if the winner proves overwhelmed.

I think I am more shocked that anyone here is this worked up on the issue. Again neither has clearly won the role yet.

[AlbNYfan]

It's great to have these discussions.....just look back 12 months. The bad (or good) part of this is that the O's will have an apparent surplus (I know, you can't have enough pitching) of starting pitchers..guys like Britton, Erbe, Arietta. If it all pans out, the O's might have to deal to fill other needs.. DH and CT are just the beginning (hopefully) of many discussions in the not too distant future.

[amateurfan]

One thing to remember about his thread and topic

If either Tillman clearly outperformed Hernandez or Hernandez outperformed Tillman all ST long this entire thread is completely worthless. As it stands now, based upon ST performances. Jason Berken should have gotten more time and looks as a starter. Right now Hernandez looks like the winner based completely off his last start. You throw that last start out and "POOF" both look similarly inept.

I am pulling for both of them and want the best choice made both long and short term. Both players have options left. It's not as if the #5 job will hold all season long if the winner proves overwhelmed.

I think I am more shocked that anyone here is this worked up on the issue. Again neither has clearly won the role yet.

This is not accurate.

[amateurfan]

Here's Neyer's take on the DH/CT competition.

[SilentJames]

Here's Neyer's take on the DH/CT competition.

Neyer really doesn't say anything there. I mean, nothing we didn't already hear.

[EL_Coyote]

This is not accurate.

OK. By all means tell me what is not accurate. I am open to debate, so please don't think me combative on the subject. I want the best scenario for the team and both prospects to pan out.

[TyCobb]

I am disappointed with this decision. At least we know that DT doesn't go against his word.

I think DH is one of the five starter for the O's future and will succeed as one for sure. I hope that SL improved from last season.

Will be playing attention to Tillman's starts at AAA. At least starting in AAA they can make sure Tillman doesn't go over 185 ip for the whole season.

[jerios55]

Last year I was upset when BB was sent down, but things worked out just fine. It may only be a short time he is down.

Tillman is still very young, so this might be AM trying to let him grow a little longer in the minors. None of us were happy that it took so long for Wieters to be called up. This is the AM way though...if I recall he didn't seem to want to call Tillman up, but felt a bit forced (maybe that was Matusz). How long would Tillman have to be sent down to keep him from Super 2 status? (I have no idea, maybe a partial reasoning).

On some levels this might be a showcase for DH. We have a lot of young pitchers coming up that currently have higher potentials (or likelyhood of achieving them). If DH could put in a solid year, he could be a big piece in a trade for a bat.

Mark me down as a bit surprised and slightly frustrated about Tillman (possibly) being sent down, but ultimately not that concerned by it happening.

[Arthur_Bryant]

I am disappointed with this decision. At least we know that DT doesn't go against his word.

I think DH is one of the five starter for the O's future and will succeed as one for sure. I hope that SL improved from last season.

Will be playing attention to Tillman's starts at AAA. At least starting in AAA they can make sure Tillman doesn't go over 185 ip for the whole season.

He won't be down there all season.

[TyCobb]

He won't be down there all season.

I think there is a decent chance he will be down for the first 2-3 months. He can hit 185 ip without getting shutdown if they keep him at 5-6 ip per start.

[Arthur_Bryant]

Last year I was upset when BB was sent down, but things worked out just fine. It may only be a short time he is down.

Tillman is still very young, so this might be AM trying to let him grow a little longer in the minors. None of us were happy that it took so long for Wieters to be called up. This is the AM way though...if I recall he didn't seem to want to call Tillman up, but felt a bit forced (maybe that was Matusz). How long would Tillman have to be sent down to keep him from Super 2 status? (I have no idea, maybe a partial reasoning).

On some levels this might be a showcase for DH. We have a lot of young pitchers coming up that currently have higher potentials (or likelyhood of achieving them). If DH could put in a solid year, he could be a big piece in a trade for a bat.

Mark me down as a bit surprised and slightly frustrated about Tillman (possibly) being sent down, but ultimately not that concerned by it happening.

This decision doesn't mean that Tillmsn deserves to be in AAA on the merits. It's an overall roster decision.

[TyCobb]

This decision doesn't mean that Tillmsn deserves to be in AAA on the merits. It's an overall roster decision.

I think it was DT afraid to go against his word more than anything else. It is obvious that DH pitched better this spring than CT.

DT problem was saying there was open competition for the 5th spot.

[NewMarketSean]

Sometimes you have to go with the hot hand, and Hernandez has it right now.

I have no problems with Tillman starting the season in Norfolk. That's what depth is. I'd rather have pitchers who could make the team starting the year in the minors over starting the year with pitchers who should be in the minors.

Didn't stuff like this happen all the time in the 60's and 70's? Good O's pitchers (and players in general) starting the year in the minors???

I have no problems with this and wish Hernandez the best of luck.

[Moose Milligan]

The best pitcher hasn't won...The best pitcher for a few innings won..There is a big difference.

The idea that Tillman will get his time is meaningless in this debate.

Honestly, I think at this point in their respective careers who the best pitcher is hasn't been decided.

Now if you're going on draft status and hype, yes, the best pitcher hasn't won yet.

And no, the idea that Tillman will get his time is not meaningless. He'll get his shot in Baltimore sooner or later...it's not like he's being pooch screwed here. He'll be fine.

[SilentJames]

Roch comments - seems to me that all this hoopla was over nothing:

Manager Dave Trembley indicated a few days ago that there wouldn't be any surprises in the rotation, but that was before Chris Tillman's troubled outing and Hernandez's five scoreless innings. Hernandez making the team would rate as a surprise given the assumption that Tillman would seize the fifth spot. Trembley even mentioned Tillman's name while talking about the rotation in a Q&A with fans inside Ed Smith Stadium shortly upon our arrival here, as if the right-hander would be the No. 5.

It wouldn't be the worst news if Tillman was the No. 1 at Norfolk before his 22nd birthday, but we'll see how it plays out. Again, it's nice to have some legitimate choices and not find the team so desperate for starters in the last days of camp.

Roch also mentions that Hernandez and Berken have a chance to make the 12-man [bullpen] staff.

http://masnsports.com/2010/03/evening-shade.html