ERod

[ShaneDawg85]

When Rodriguez actually makes it to the major leagues and has success, or gets included in a trade for something significant, then maybe it makes sense to worry. Until then, who cares? Are people around here just desperate for something to complain and worry about?

[paulcoates]

Let it go,

Let it go,

turn your back and slam the door

[Hawkigizer]

Reports have him topping out at 97 MPH now. Was he ever touching that with the O's?...honest question.

[Frobby]

What's the problem? We traded a young pitcher for something we needed. Now that young pitcher is having his best stretch of games all year. That's interesting.

I'd also add that Miller was more of a luxury than a necessity. I doubt he will make the difference between winning the division or not. He makes life in the 7th/8th inning a little easier for Buck, and he may come in handy in the playoffs. I'm very happy to have him, but if EdRod fulfills his potential, I feel we will regret this trade, in hindsight, unless Miller plays a key role in us going deep into the playoffs (and maybe even then).

[Hawkigizer]

Don't know but I was also surprised to see the mid 90's reports. I thought he was a 91-93 guy.

Yeah, I always thought 92-94, maybe touching 95 on occasion. Who knows if these reports are correct, or if it's a hot gun.

[webbrick2010]

I liked the trade... until we lost Manny.

Losing Manny makes the likelihood that Miller will be worth ERod very remote.

Can't fault DD, he didn't know we were going to lose our best player and with him our playoff legitimacy.

[hoosiers]

He's pitched two games. Most organizations don't do much tinkering when they get a new player, especially one acquired in the middle of the year. E-rod had a couple nice starts. He had a couple nice starts for the Baysox this year as well. Tillman, Britton and Gausman would disagree with your statement as well. E-rod was a nice guy to have in your system, but he has flaws. There's a chance he could end up a mid-rotaiton starter, but he has a ways to go and there's a chance he may never turn into an effective big league player.

The orioles on the other hand were able to acquire a 3rd lock down reliever for their pen. I liked the trade when it happened, and I like it now no matter what E-Rod turns into. You have to be willing to take on risk to be a successful GM, and Duquette is not risk adverse. He's always trying to improve his team and he uses his minor leaguers as the commodities that they are.

I understood the trade and agreed with it at the time, but I agree with Frobby that Miller is more of a luxury than a necessity.

IMO, it ABSOLUTELY matters what EdRod becomes when evaluating this trade. DD is not risk averse, but that does not mean that he may or may not have valued this asset appropriately. That is still to be determined. Clearly the Os (and many here) have been quite vocal that EdRod has flaws which clearly weigh into the discussion on EdRod's value and whether to move him for Miller. If that opinion is vindicated, then great trade. If EdRod does develop into a mid-rotation starter, then I would say the asset appears to have been more valuable then we thought and the trade did not turn out so favorably.

If EdRod pans out into a mid-rotation sarter, it will have been a fairly poor trade, so while I usually agree with Tony, that will not be the case here - I think it very much matters how EdRod turns out.

[Ruzious]

I'd also add that Miller was more of a luxury than a necessity. I doubt he will make the difference between winning the division or not. He makes life in the 7th/8th inning a little easier for Buck, and he may come in handy in the playoffs. I'm very happy to have him, but if EdRod fulfills his potential, I feel we will regret this trade, in hindsight, unless Miller plays a key role in us going deep into the playoffs (and maybe even then).

It won't be just how he performs. It'll be the effect of his presence reducing the work-load and arm-stress for the other late-inning relievers.

[Ruzious]

Reports have him topping out at 97 MPH now. Was he ever touching that with the O's?...honest question.

Your source being?

[Ruzious]

When Rodriguez actually makes it to the major leagues and has success, or gets included in a trade for something significant, then maybe it makes sense to worry. Until then, who cares? Are people around here just desperate for something to complain and worry about?

What I think is bizarre in fan reaction is that I never hear anyone whining about Jayson Werth. He's a guy who's been a ML all-star, has an .835 lifetime OPS, plays a very good RF. We gave him up for a very non-descript pitcher who I don't even remember. I think the feeling was Werth was not going to be a player without a change of scenery. EdRod falls in that same category - considering his production the last year and a half he was here and quotes about his desire here.

[Oldorioles]

What I think is bizarre in fan reaction is that I never hear anyone whining about Jayson Werth. He's a guy who's been a ML all-star, has an .835 lifetime OPS, plays a very good RF. We gave him up for a very non-descript pitcher who I don't even remember. I think the feeling was Werth was not going to be a player without a change of scenery. EdRod falls in that same category - considering his production the last year and a half he was here and quotes about his desire here.

John Bale

[Frobby]

What I think is bizarre in fan reaction is that I never hear anyone whining about Jayson Werth. He's a guy who's been a ML all-star, has an .835 lifetime OPS, plays a very good RF. We gave him up for a very non-descript pitcher who I don't even remember. I think the feeling was Werth was not going to be a player without a change of scenery. EdRod falls in that same category - considering his production the last year and a half he was here and quotes about his desire here.

It's interesting to look back at Werth in hindsight. He was traded after the 2000 season, his 4th year in our system (including the year he was drafted, in which he played in the GCL). I was fairly new to following our minor league players then, and didn't have the understanding of age vs. league age and how that interplays with performance that I have now. Werth had mediocre stats if you look at them in a vacuum, but when you consider his age, they weren't too bad at all:

1997 (age 18) : .830 OPS in GCL

1998 (age 19): .751 OPS in low A (ranked #52 by BA following this season)

1999 (age 20): .797 OPS in high A, .719 in AA (ranked #48 by BA following this season)

2000 (age 21): .733 OPS in high A, .716 in AA (unranked by BA following this season

I remember that the word on Werth at the time was that he had been a big disappointment, but judging his age/performance based on what I know now, I'd say that's a very solid performance, despite a bit of a setback season in 2000.

We traded him for John Bale, who at the time was 26 and had been a decent AAA pitcher who had struggled in some limited stints in the majors. Certainly a pretty awful trade knowing how Werth and Bale turned out, but frankly, it's awful even considering what they had done up to that time, especially considering that the O's were in rebuilding mode by then.

[Can_of_corn]

It's interesting to look back at Werth in hindsight. He was traded after the 2000 season, his 4th year in our system (including the year he was drafted, in which he played in the GCL). I was fairly new to following our minor league players then, and didn't have the understanding of age vs. league age and how that interplays with performance that I have now. Werth had mediocre stats if you look at them in a vacuum, but when you consider his age, they weren't too bad at all:

1997 (age 18) : .830 OPS in GCL

1998 (age 19): .751 OPS in low A (ranked #52 by BA following this season)

1999 (age 20): .797 OPS in high A, .719 in AA (ranked #48 by BA following this season)

2000 (age 21): .733 OPS in high A, .716 in AA (unranked by BA following this season

I remember that the word on Werth at the time was that he had been a big disappointment, but judging his age/performance based on what I know now, I'd say that's a very solid performance, despite a bit of a setback season in 2000.

We traded him for John Bale, who at the time was 26 and had been a decent AAA pitcher who had struggled in some limited stints in the majors. Certainly a pretty awful trade knowing how Werth and Bale turned out, but frankly, it's awful even considering what they had done up to that time, especially considering that the O's were in rebuilding mode by then.

Wasn't part of the issue with Werth is that he disagreed with the O's development people who wanted to move him off Catcher?

[Can_of_corn]

I think it's just the opposite. They wanted him to catch and he didn't want to.

Could be, I wasn't watching things closely then. Either way there was a disconnect between player and team. Those generally make the player more available.

[Frobby]

ERod was traded a month ago and his having his best 4 game stretch of the year. If he had pitched like this all year, it's safe to say that the O's wouldn't have traded him for Miller.

Exactly. That's why I'm frustrated. I've followed the guy for years, always liked him, and then he has been so inconsistent this year, right up to the moment he was traded, and then boom, it's like a light went off in his head. It's really annoying.